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I Am American Business

Mickie Siebert

Producer Notes

When you walk onto the trading floor of the NYSE with Mickie Siebert, it feels a bit like being in the presence of royalty. People recognize her and want to say hello. And being with Mickie reminds you of the days before computer trading, when everything happened on the trading floor in a flurry of activity, when tourists could gaze down from the balcony, before 9/11 forced it to close. Mickie Siebert didn't set out to make history as the first woman with a seat on the NYSE. She was supporting her family after her father died. She needed to make money.Working for herself looked like the best way to manage that in 1967. She has grown into her role in history since then. When she's approached on the sidewalk, walking down Wall Street, she is always courteous and interested. But you can tell that beneath her gracious exterior, she's still tough as steel. Mickie Siebert is someone you'd always want on your team, whatever the challenge.

Video Interview

$65 a Week
They Never Asked a Man
There Was No Ladies' Room
I Hadn't Realized What I Had Done
Money Was Not a Proper Subject for Ladies

The "I Am" Q&A

What kind of car do you drive?
I have three Mercedes convertibles. One is a 1972 350SL. One is a 1994 500SL. And one is a 2000 four-seater convertible Mercedes.

What's your favorite place to go?
South Hampton in the summer, because I love the ocean.

What was your worst moment in business?
That crash in '87 left me thinking- it made me much more conservative, because we had some margin accounts that blew themselves out of the water. And after they went through their capital, I was responsible for it. So it ate up a lot of my capital.

What's your favorite drink?
Ketel One on the rocks, but I may be changing to Grey Goose.

What is your favorite food?
I still love a good rare piece of roast beef with a bone.

What's your idea of fun?
My idea of fun is to be with friends and just relax and do what we think of doing whether it's driving out to the country for dinner, whether it's walking around the Village. I still love living in NY. I think it's a toy.

And at work? What's fun at work?
I still get a satisfaction i f I read something and can address it on an intellectual level. If it stimulates my thinking.

What personal weaknesses do you forgive in someone?
Most of them, 'cause we all have weaknesses.

And business weaknesses?
I can forgive someone that's too optimistic as long as some of their projections come through.

Who's a business hero of yours?
A business hero of mine would be Bill Gates

What personal qualities do you admire in business?
Integrity would be number one. The ability to look ahead and grasp a new idea. Or I should say the ability to see a new idea and implement it.

What personal qualities do you admire in life?
I admire fun. I love people.

What was your greatest moment in business?
When I crossed a block of stock that basically represented control of the company. It was Beech Aircraft. It was owned by McDonnell Aircraft and after they bought Douglas, they could have owned Beech. And I broke it up and sold it to nine or ten different institutions, who each took a piece of the block. And I crossed the block on the floor. I called Mrs. Beech up and I said, "The McDonnell block is going to cross, it's going to trade." She called me the next day, and she said, "Why don't you use your commissions to buy an airplane." And I wanted to tell her, "Mrs. Beach, you ought to give me an airplane!" But I learned how to fly after that.

What is your dream?
I started a program in the school system. Ten years ago I brought the ideas to the New York City public schools, that teaches the students credit cards, and checking accounts basics. We don't go into stocks and bonds. What are the deductions from your paycheck? Basic personal finance. Budgeting. And my dream is to have that program national. I am having a version of the program done for people in the workforce. And my dream is to use my talents and to help people develop the knowledge of personal financial literacy. My school program is now in the required course in economics in the city of New York. It took me ten years to get it into the school program. And that's a long time. That's a lot of determination. And I want to make it national.

Do you have a motto?
Put your head down, charge and get the little bastards.

What is your present state of mind?
Concerned. I wish I could do something to make the elected officials concentrate on the things that are important for the future of this country. I am concerned.

Transcript

CNBC:
Talk a little bit about when you started out.

MICKIE SIEBERT:
I applied to the UN for a job, first. I came from Cleveland, Ohio. And, I applied for the UN because my mother was the youngest of eleven children. They were all born in Hungary. They came in three trenches. And the oldest of the eleven was one of our representatives to the UN. And the UN looked exciting. And thank god, I didn’t get the job!

CNBC:
Did you ever visit the stock exchange?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
I had been to New York once before on vacation. I had come to New York with two girlfriends from Cleveland, Ohio. And we took the tour of New York, and that included a visit to the balcony of the stock exchange. And all that action looked exciting. Maybe the fact they were all men looked exciting. And I said, "Gee, if I ever come to New York, maybe I’d like to work down here."

CNBC:
You also had an affinity for numbers…

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Oh, yes. I learned that when I was at college, that I could get an A in accounting, and not even attend the course. And, I can look at a page of numbers, and they talk to me. I can see ratios in them if I look at it. And I’ll remember numbers. Don’t ask me to remember a lot of other things, but numbers, I can give you ratios. I can give you numbers from the annual report, and I can look at them, and they’ve held me in very good stead. And I applied to the UN. I did not have two languages, so no job. I applied to Merrill Lynch for a job the next day. They said, "College degree?" And I said, "No." And I applied to another company for a job the next day, and they said, "College degree?" And I said, "Yes." And I got the job. And I kept that misstatement, or lie, going until I put the bid card in for the stock exchange, because I realized that was a historic application. I was offered sixty-five dollars a week as a trainee in research, and they offered me seventy-five dollars a week in the accounting department. And I took the sixty-five dollars a week. And that was a big difference then, 'cause I lived on that money. I had no one that I could say to, "Mommy, I want to rent an apartment." My sister had moved to New York and I was on the couch in her apartment.

CNBC:
So why did you go for the less money?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Because the research I thought, could be exciting. You know, I’d be studying and I remember when I got an increase to seventy dollars a week. It meant I could spend twenty cents more a day for lunch. But what happened was, two years later, I had doubled my salary. I thought I was living pretty well. But the men were making between close to twice what I was making. And that’s a quality of life difference of money. That’s a matter of earning a half a million dollars and somebody’s earning six hundred thousand. That’s a real quality of life. That’s- take a vacation, buy a car, real money, as I call it. And I would switch when a firm offered me close to what the men were making, and then I’d get out of balance again. But my life changed when I switched jobs the first time, and I got a call. And they said, “We made money on a report you wrote. We owe you an order.” I was not registered! I couldn’t take an order. So I went into the partner in charge of research, and I said, “Shall I wait?” I told him. “Shall I wait ‘til I get registered?” And he said, “No, go up there and get the order, we’ll make it up to you at Christmas.” I was an analyst on a salary. I had the right to recommend any stock. My specialty was aviation but I had the right, if I really wanted to recommend a company outside of that, as long as, it wasn’t being recommended by another analyst, I could cross industries. And I started to bring in institutions. And I started to change my earning capacity, and my way of life.

CNBC:
But a friend of yours suggested you go out on your own?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
I had picked up a following in institutions. The first report that I really grabbed a lot of attention for was the one on the motion picture industry, because they used to take their totally depreciated films. And they were starting to rent them on television. And I said, "Look at these assets and think of what they’re going to be worth on television." And I wrote a report on the industry based on that. It was an unusual kind of research. And, it grabbed a lot of attention. Institutions made money on it, and then when they met me, they would listen to what I was recommending. And I started to get orders, and I switched firms a few times. I’d almost catch up to the men, and the men would start making more than I was making. And I asked a money manager, "What large firm can I go to where I’ll get credit on the business I’m doing?" And he said, "Don’t be ridiculous! You won't. Work for your- buy a seat, work for yourself." And I said, "Don’t you be ridiculous." And he said, "I don't think there’s a law against it." And I took the Constitution of the New York Stock Exchange home, and I studied it, and I felt that I qualified. I wanted to be paid equally. And a friend suggested that I buy a seat, and work for myself. And I made that decision, that’s what I was going to do. Well, it was not as easy, because you have to file a bid card with the stock exchange, and you have to be sponsored. I had a very hard time being sponsored. I wanted to be sponsored by a member that was out in the floor. You needed two sponsors. And nobody would touch me. "I'm going to be out of town." "I mean, Mickie, I don't know you well enough." So I was sponsored by two upstairs members.

CNBC:
What was it like then?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Well, it was said in a lot of the newspapers, they never had a woman member before because there was no ladies’ room. But they had a ladies’ room from the Korean War when they had women as pages. But after I got the seat, nobody told me about the ladies' room for two and a half years. I was going upstairs to the sixth floor. And one day, I went downstairs, and the way the commissions had changed, if you did a large block of stock, the floor brokerage could be thirty percent. So for that, I decided, on any large block of stock that I’m crossing, I should go down and do it, because the markets were not that volatile at the time. And I said to one of the specialists, I crossed the block," I said, "I'll see you in a few minutes." He said, "Where are you going?" I said, "The sixth floor." Well that usually meant, that's where the administration of the stock exchange was, and that could mean that you've done something that they’re questioning. So he said, "You’re not in any trouble, are you?" I said, "No, Frank, I'm going to the ladies' room." And he said, "You don’t know that there is a ladies' room down here?" And I said, "No, I do not." And Frank took me by my hand, in the middle of the trading day, walked me across the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and showed me where the ladies’ room was. That was very gutsy on his part.

CNBC:
But, obviously the ladies’ room was a cover-up for how they really felt about letting women in.

MICKIE SIEBERT:
That is correct. I had a couple of roadblocks that were really thrown at me. I needed a letter from the bank that was going to make the loan. They never asked a man for that letter. Before they would accept my bid card, and J.P. Morgan, I used to do a lot of business with the research departments, or the trust departments, and they knew me. Said they’d make the loan, and the bank said they need that letter. And they said, "We've loaned money to men. We’ve never had to write a letter." They said, "Get the seat, we’ll make you the loan." Well, a couple months went by, and I was in this catch-22. And I told this to somebody from the Chase bank, trust department, and I told the story, I said, "I guess I’m not getting the seat." And in ten minutes, I had a call from the bank, they would write the letter. And I got the seat. But the fact was, as the Chase bank told me later, they had a bet going around that they’d never have to make the loan. And they took that loan approval all the way up to Mr. Rockefeller, who said yes. And this I was told a couple years later. So, I mean, I was challenged.

CNBC:
To be a woman in that environment must have taken a lot of courage…

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Well, I was creating a list of clients that were the largest institutions and I would cross very large blocks of stock. And, I realized that I was becoming important. And I mean I knew the aviation industry well. I later became the first woman member of the Wings club, which was an industry club, sponsored by the chairman of several aerospace and airline companies. They treated me beautifully. The companies treated me like I was something special. And if I was in a place where they had no women employees, which was very common in certain parts of US industry at that time, somebody would stand outside the door when I went into the men’s room. It was not a deal. And even when I joined the exchange, for everyone that was nasty, somebody would step up, that was really nice. "How are you doing?" But for ten years, with the exception of a two-month period where there was another woman member, I could say 1365 and me. And that’s more than being delightfully outnumbered.

CNBC:
Were you thinking about the fact that what you were doing was a historic step for women?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
I knew it, but I also did not do it for that. I think, when I realized what I had done, a few years later, I bought this seat, December 28th, 1967, and when the Women’s Movement came in 1970, I suddenly became a role model. And, that was a tough decision because I said, “Okay, Mickie, that’s an obligation.” I took this whole thing as a challenge, before this. And I realized, well, sure it was a challenge. I mean I was doing well. I had dropped out of college ‘cause my father died, had cancer at 52. He was a dentist. And three years of nurses around the clock and everything. It was tough. He died without money. We moved from a house to a one-bedroom apartment, and I was in the one bedroom. Don’t misunderstand me- I had great parents. I don’t consider myself not to be privileged. And my uncle started to support my mother after my father died. One of her brothers. And I started to make real big money, and I took over her support. And I felt that I was doing something that I was very proud to do. And, buying a seat was important to me, but I had not realized in total what I had done. And, when I realized it, as my mother would have said, “With honors comes obligations.” And, I believe in that today. I made the New York stock exchange co-ed, December 28th, 1967. The day I got the seat, because they swear everybody in on a Friday- at least they used to- they don’t have seats anymore. So you lease a seat today, you don’t buy it and get sworn in as a member- they gave everybody a badge and a scroll, except Muriel Siebert. My scroll is signed by the next chairman, and I didn’t get it ‘til six months later, ‘til I got a little angry one day. I cannot tell you how I felt. It wasn’t nice. And the rules of the stock exchange say that your scroll, that proves that you are a member, must be prominently displayed in the office. And I did not get one. On one hand I was celebrating, I bought the seat. And the other hand, well it was a bitter slap in the face to give everybody else a badge and a scroll.

CNBC:
But you fought for it?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
And I got it.

CNBC:
Did you always have a rebellious streak?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
No, it wasn’t being rebellious, because I felt I was doing something good. I think it was before I bought this seat. I knew aerospace stocks. I knew the companies well. If I got behind the stock, I really knew those numbers. I’ve been able to succeed because if I go into numbers, I do a superb job, if I have to say so myself. And I helped Lockheed get the guarantee that they got from the government when they were in financial problems. And the people that did the lobbying- first they wanted me to testify and I said no, because I felt that all of the aerospace companies that were there competitors would have a team of people working the night before, and how could I, who was doing my own work, compete with that. And they said, “Would you write a study and take it to senators? We’ll make the appointments for you.” And I said, “Yes, I will.” And I still have that original study, why the government should guarantee Lockheed. And, I have it in writing from someone- this saves the company. In their handwriting. And I realized that I thought I was doing something very good when I did that. I put effort into it and the company. We would not have had Lockheed and all their technological breakthroughs without that. They had a bad form of a contract on the C5A, which was the big cargo plane. I was getting the honors of being the first woman. That was important, to me. Because I would go to rooms where it was like a hundred men and me. Meeting after meeting.

CNBC:
Your mother had had a dream that she hadn’t realized ?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Well, my mother had a God-given voice. She was an artist. She also painted. And it was a well-trained voice. But her parents would not allow her on the stage. And she died with that frustration. Later in life, I signed the paper for the amputation for her life of her leg. My mother’s leg was amputated in New York. She didn’t know it was going to be amputated at the time. And it was not diabetes, but it was a blood clot. And when she realized that, and she was in a wheelchair, and she realized what her life would be, she said, "I cannot act anymore, but I can still sing." And when she had another stroke, they said, "You've got to realize your mother is a vegetable. Take her and put her in a nursing home, and you can have the coverage there." And I said, "She has more mental capacity." And I would go to the hospital after the office, every day. I’d get her to sing. Her voice filled the hall of the hospital.

CNBC:
Do you think that contributed to your determination?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
It added to my strength. I let the opportunities give me the determination. And I think things like that added to my strength.

CNBC:
You said your mother once said, “Never give away what you can sell."

MICKIE SIEBERT:
I was not going to do the same work as the men were doing, and be paid less, because it wasn’t fair. And I was writing those tickets. And I remember, I’d go out and see Boeing if I had an appointment there, and they were in Seattle. And I once placed maybe twenty-five percent of the whole company. And, because the stock was way down, and they had the 727, and they were coming out with the 737. I saw Mr. Drinkwater of Western Airlines, and I said, "Tell me, why did you order the 737?" 'Cause he had some 727s. And he said, "Well, you know, there’s a great similarity of parts." So when he showed me the book- the commercial book that they were putting out for the airlines, and I realized the amount of the similarity of parts, I said, “The expenses on that plane, for Boeing, are going to be way down." because they wouldn’t have to have new parts. They wouldn’t have to have that depreciation. They wouldn’t have to stock them. And I figured out their savings on an order because the airlines would always buy a certain percentage of new parts. The stock was yielding six percent, at the time. One of my sponsors used to be head of the Chase trust department. And he was at Salomon Brothers, as a partner. And I told him. And I came back from lunch that day, and that was a full commission order from Salomon Brothers to buy them Boeing. 'Cause he knew I knew the company.

CNBC:
So, um, let's just talk about Wall Street today.

MICKIE SIEBER:
Well, Wall Street has changed. Trading is becoming global. The securities industry is becoming global. It’s instant global information now. And that means, you can buy stocks, you can buy German companies instantly, and news gets spread fast. And the trading systems have changed. It used to be that every order was handled. The analyst or the broker would be on the phone with the person that you were, with the trader. And the order would go to the floor of the New York stock exchange, if it was a listed stock, all stocks traded- listed stocks traded down there. NASDAQ stocks traded over the counter. And now suddenly, the electronic trading by computer, or by private electronic systems, account for the bulk of the trading. And in my opinion, it’s made the trading more volatile. We have gone away from the specialist system. We don’t have what was envisioned, that there would be room for both of them. And so the specialist system had an obligation to make an orderly market and to employ their capital to do that. Electronic machines do not have that capital. They’re reflecting bid and assets that come in, or you cross a block of stock. And Wall Street has changed in that way. Some of the institutions are trading more. But they may or may not be buying for the long-term. And because of the increase in trading and the new products that have come out, the money has become very vast, and very fast. Where it’s made fast. And, we have to realize that money is not God. Some of the things that have happened leave a lot to be desired. The sub-prime loans, for example, there were some actions that were not exactly the right thing to do. You can make enough money on Wall Street, and not do anything that you would consider to be amoral. But now we’re getting these stories- some of the mortgage brokers invented the income on the applications. They didn’t tell the buyers certain things. And we have to realize, that’s not the purpose. We have a capital raising system that has enabled this country to succeed. I mean, if you go into the 1990s, every new technological development was US. Look at the companies and the technology that has come out. Look at the medical products that have come out, that were all developed in the US. The way they would start out with a little money and then they might have a small underwriting, and then when the company really succeeded a large company would take over and do the underwriting. And we’ve created companies that are employing thousands of people. Look at what Microsoft has done, and what they’ve created. Look at the jobs that have been done, the way it’s changed industry. And we have to sit back a little while, and think about it.

CNBC:
Do people need to think about taking more responsibility?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
More responsibility, and if you make that kind of money, you have obligations. You know. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are taking that responsibility, in their foundations, and they have very lofty goals. And I think that this is important, because we can change things. And the country has a lot of serious things that have to be thought about. Energy. We’re dependent. We’ve got to find an alternate source of energy. Whether it’s for automobiles or for other things.

CNBC:
Would you say that in the process of this money game being so fast, that we’re losing sight of the larger purpose?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Yes. I would say we have to see where this money is going, and where it’s being used, and how we can get some of that money to attack or change the four or five major things that the country is experiencing. One is energy. Oil is now over ninety dollars a barrel. This is going to hurt people. Health insurance has to be addressed. How can we produce health insurance for people who do not have it, at a lower cost? How can we have people in this country who do not have health insurance? We have to look at energy. We have to look at immigration. You know, if we did not have people from other countries working here, we probably couldn’t open the restaurants in New York City. Or a lot of other cities. And we have to have a program. How can we use some of this money? Number one, to create the new generation of products? And how can we use this money to meet the challenges of the country? Money today, in some ways, has gotten down to paper. It’s not "I need this, and if I do this it will create this." It’s speeded up, it’s more impersonal, and there’s a lot of it being made. And you hear some of the day traders, you know, God bless them, because they certainly think fast and they’re a significant part of the business. The business has changed. We never had day traders, but we didn’t have the electronics to do it, fast.

CNBC:
What are they losing sight of?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Well, we are losing sight in this speedy process, of the good things that money can accomplish. And that we do, when we’re downtown, and we’re in a industry that’s as vibrant, and can affect change, as Wall Street can, or losing fact that when you make that kind of money, you have an obligation to use it for the benefit of people in general.

CNBC:
It’s not just money for the sake of money.

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Money is a great commodity. And it can be used for the betterment of humanity, for people in general. It can be used for education. It can be used to buy things that you enjoy. I mean, don’t misunderstand me. I have a car that was a first Mercedes 350 SL that came into the country. It’s now twenty-two years old. And I don’t drive it much, because it doesn’t have all the current safety factors. Now, at that point, it was a real accomplishment to me, that I got the first Mercedes 350 SL. I used a little pull, and I used my position, and I’m delighted. And, money is great for buying what I call commodities. Things that you like, and if you’re earning it and working hard for it, you’re entitled to buy it. But there’s also a higher purpose for money. And there is a challenge that if you’re in a position where you’ve made a lot of money, or where you’re in a position to make money, and help other people, there’s really an obligation. Money has an obligation. And, it’s got to be used for the betterment. We have to get together. We have to see what are the challenges that the country faces. And that’s where some of the money that is being made today, in big pockets full, has to be used. And I think there’s a place for it.

CNBC:
What’s happening with women investors today?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
When I was growing up, money was not a proper subject for ladies. And no woman I knew- they didn’t teach money. They didn’t touch education on money, in the schools for ladies. Your husband took care of you. And if you received an inheritance, it went to a trust department, and most of the people did not know how it was being handled. Or it went to a broker, and you gave them a discretionary account. And it’s changing because in today’s environment, they have found that over fifty percent- and it’s much higher than that, actually- of women, at one time or another, have to take control of their money, or their family’s money. It can be that their parents are sick, and today’s generation is called the Sandwich Generation. They’re sandwiched between their parents, and sending their children to school. Today a woman can get a divorce. And she doesn’t get a way of living that she used to get. She might get supported. Women are starting to take control of their money. Part of it is, they’re working now, and they get approached, “Do you want to participate in the 401k?” And they want the IRA, and they’re putting money aside for the future. They realize they have to. And, yes, they are little more conservative. You don’t see them doing day trading anymore. I’m very sorry to say I don’t see that many in hedge funds, or some of the newer money management firms. They should be there because they’re coming out of Wharton. They’re coming out educated. But the average woman today is more interested in her money ‘cause she knows she’s going to need it for the future. They’re no longer just putting it into a bank account. That’s a first step, is to realize you have to save money for your future. And the next step is, they open up brokerage accounts. And when you get the knowledge, you will put more into a newer company, like a Microsoft, and I don’t mean this as a recommendation, but they will take more aggressive steps in their investment. I see it happening in my own firm.

CNBC:
Do you think women are a potential growth area?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Yes. I think that women investors are probably the biggest potential customer and growth area in the industry. Because they realize that they need that knowledge, and they have to take care of themselves. The firms should be catering to them. They should be having courses for them. A lot of firms are. I can see the invitations that I get, just from the telephone book. But I think that women know that money is now important. They’ve made mistakes in the past. Some have had the lost money they have been left. But today, I see people that are trading stocks for themselves, or investing and selling them over a short- shorter period of time.

CNBC:
Do you see them taking more risks?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
I think women could be the biggest growth area for Wall Street. For Wall Street firms. Because they’re fifty percent of our population. They’re working. They’re being given control of the family money. There’s a lot of money that’s going to change control, from their parents. The numbers are staggering. To the baby boomers, and from the baby boomers to their children, and half of those children are women. And they are potential customers. They want to know what to do with their money, and they’re learning, and they’re studying, and they are knowledgeable today. They’re getting the knowledge. They’re buying the magazines. They’re reading them. They’re opening the accounts.

CNBC:
And as a woman who was at the forefront of this change, how does that make you feel?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Well, as a woman, and I know that I’m a role model for some of them, it makes me feel great. Because when I can influence people, and I go off and give speeches so many times, to women who want to invest their money, because they just need a little encouragement, and it’s wonderful to see this developing.

CNBC:
Do you feel like it’s all worth it?

MICKIE SIEBERT:
I can, at times, have a pretty tough day. You know, I may go to Boston and give a speech, and I’m on the 4:30 shuttle. And I get there in time to give the speech. And when I come back and I scratch my head half the time, say, “Mickie, now why are you doing this?” You know, you got up at 6 o'clock this morning. And then I said, “But look, you have a hundred and fifty people that you influenced tonight.” And that makes it worthwhile. And it makes me feel good, that I can share some of that knowledge. You have to know how much you can risk. You do not risk what you cannot afford to lose. But you can enter the investing arena in stages.

CNBC:
Do you think it’s important for women to see you and go, "If she can do it, I can do it?"

MICKIE SIEBERT:
Sure. And that’s important for me to do that. And I love doing it. Because, I can understand them, and I can see the way the money helps them, and they feel better. You know, women started to learn money when it became necessary for both the husband and the wife to work, to buy the house and the car, and educate their children, and get a weekend place. And, when the woman’s salary became necessary to meet those bills and those payments, men started to respect their wives’ jobs more. And also, they wanted their wife to be paid equally, because it meant that it was taking some of the burden off of them. And, I’ve been in this generation that has participated in the knowledge, and giving them the encouragement. And it’s a good feeling, because when a woman’s salary is necessary to pay these bills- and we all live better than we used to live- you realize that there are a lot of people, today, when I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, the average family had one car. We were living better. Television has encouraged people. They see people going on an airplane to take a vacation; they want to do it, too. So they’re working to pay for this. And the women are benefiting from them, and they are contributing to the knowledge, and they’re contributing to the quality of the standard of life. And it’s terrific. A man will take advice from a woman today. Women analysts are common. Women running large portfolios of mutual funds are common. And, they won’t say, "Oh, that’s a woman running that- don’t take her advice."They say, "That’s a woman running that, and look at the job she’s done!"

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