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CNBC EXCERPTS: CNBC'S MARIA BARTIROMO ADDRESSES HEALTH CARE WITH SOME OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN THE INDUSTRY AND GOVERNMENT TONIGHT ON CNBC'S "MEETING OF THE MINDS: THE FUTURE OF HEALTH CARE"

GRANHOLM AND FRIST ON VALUE OF LIFE

GRANHOLM: We're basically saying that lives -- that don't have insurance are not worth anything. Right now, the system

is --[CROSSTALK]

FRIST: If you don't have insurance -- and this is important for everybody to agree with, I think -- if you don't have insurance in America, you die sooner. You get less adequate care --

GRANHOLM: But we're also saying that your life is not valuable if you have a pre-existing condition, and therefore you can't get care.

***

GRANHOLM ON DRUG SPENDING

GRANHOLM: John, why are we spending so much money on advertising? I mean, all of these dollars going to tell me, who is not a doctor, what drug I should use. Shouldn't we be putting that money back into research and development? It seems crazy to me that I can turn on -- [CROSSTALK] -- yeah, turn on the TV and they're advertising for Cialis or whatever --

FRIST: This is America -- why, why -- this is America -- freedom of speech [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

GRANHOLM: But the person doesn't know, they're not a doctor --

FRIST: It costs, it costs --

GRANHOLM: But that's taxpayers dollar that are going into advertising, when it's not, it's not going to a doctor --

FRIST: It costs them a billion dollars in twelve years to get one drug. I'm not going to be defending the drug company --

***

LECHLEITER ON GENERIC DRUGS

LECHLEITER: Seventy-plus percent of all medicines today in this country are generic. So you can get the generic version of Prozac for pennies a day. But if we, if we kill the innovation that led to the discovery of Prozac, there will never be a generic version

***

MILKEN ON COST OF CANCER

MILKEN: If we eliminated cancer as a cause of death, economically, it is priceless, but economically it is the world's greatest economic stimulus, $50 trillion.

MARIA: You speak as if we don't want to find a cure for cancer --

MILKEN: If it's worth $50 trillion, maybe we should spend more than $5 billion a year on a $50 trillion outcome.

***

FRIST ON PUBLIC PLAN

FRIST: At the end of the day, there's enough fear from Americans that if you put a public plan out there, and competing with all -- we're basically driven by a private system today -- that the public plan, which pays doctors 20% less than the private sector, which pays hospitals 20% less than the private sector -- ultimately all the companies out there with a new mandate, that you've got to provide health insurance or pay a surcharge, are going to dump people on the public plan. The public plan's going to grow from 10 million to 20 million to 30 million to 40 million; the private health insurance market will go from 160 to 150 to 140, maybe down to 20. Then you have a public plan -- some people who like single-payer say that's good -- but at the end of the day, life-saving cancer therapies you're not gonna get.

***

BRALY ON PUBLIC PLAN

BRALY: There was a vote taken in a committee about whether the Congressmen would agree that their Federal employee program would get melded into the public plan, and they voted no. Because the Federal employee program is an employer-provided plan, it's just that the Federal government is the employer. And as Dr. Frist said, it's a richer plan.

***

ROHACK ON NO FREE MARKET

ROHACK: It's one part of medicine that is not regulated by the government or the insurer, and it's called cosmetic surgery. Cosmetic surgery is a direct transaction between the patient and the doctor. The fees are set, the negotiation occurs, it is not paid for. If you look at Lasik surgery, the technology's gone up, the price has gone down. What this highlights is that we don't have a free market in health care. There is no free market. Everybody says "let the free market work" -- there is no free market. There is regulated pricing that removes the negotiation between the patient and the doctor over the service.

***

GRANHOLM ON DRUG COSTS

GRANHOLM: There has to be a balance here, because when I sit at a town hall meeting and listen to a grandmother saying how she has to cut her pills in half because she cannot afford them, we've got to have a balance. And the unfettered spending, and the unfettered ability to raise prices on the pharmaceutical drugs, means that people are not going to be able to access care.

***

GRANHOLM ON CANADIAN HEALTH CARE

GRANHOLM: Canadians are not that different. I happen to be one -- or at least I was born there. And I know for a fact that their health care costs are half of what ours are and their outcomes are better. They live longer, because they've invested in the system in such a way to address so as to address these prevention issues, to educate people, and to bend that cost curve so that they reward people for managing care --

[CROSSTALK]

GRANHOLM: Bill, did I just not say that we ought to have a uniquely American solution.

FRIST: Which treasures innovation. I just told you -- Canada does not invest in research, in innovation, in cancer, they invest zero

GRANHOLM: Bill, work with me. Take the best of what we can learn from other places. I'm not saying copy it exactly, I'm saying take what we can learn from other places and create an American solution.

***

LECHLEITER ON CAPITALISM

LECHLEITER: I would ask, have we really given capitalism a chance to work? I mean, we're in a system today where the person who needs the service or the product can only get it through a learned intermediary, and somebody else pays for it. So why wouldn't I be incentived to seek out everything I can get, whether I need it or not? In other words, that's not the way a market normally works.

***

MILKEN AND FRIST ON GOV INNOVATION

MILKEN: In 1993, we had a new health care plan proposed. The value of pharmaceutical stocks went down 50% in 12 to 14 months. There was a perception that the outcome was the regulation of the rate of return on pharmaceutical, biotech research. It never was, in my opinion, part of the Clinton plan, but that was the perception. And when that happened, medical research in America was cut 40%, 50%, Glaxo cancelled a half-billion dollars. Every single human being on this planet has been negatively affected by the fact that medical research -- and it was cheaper to buy another pharmaceutical company -- then build a new product.

FRIST: So what are you saying -- what -- if we had a public plan, what does that do to innovation, investment -- if we become a major public plan, what happens to innovation?

***

NISSEN ON INCENTIVES

NISSEN: If you incentivize people to do more procedures -- you know, to the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And if you pay people to do procedures, they will do procedures. If you pay people to take care of patients, they'll take care of patients. We are wasting billions and billions of dollars in an inefficient system of health care delivery; we're wasting it on Medicare Advantage; and we're paying, by the way, 50% more for the same drugs that you can buy across the border in Canada.

***

MILKEN ON WEIGHT

MILKEN: If everyone in American lost weight and returned to the same weight levels of 1991, we would save one trillion dollars. We would cover all the uninsured, and we would be able to quadruple the money for medical research. In the United States, we have plenty of capacity to pay for medical care.




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