WHEN: Today, Monday, May 8th
WHERE: CNBC's "Squawk Box"
Following are excerpts from the unofficial transcript of a CNBC interview with Berkshire Hathaway Chairman & CEO Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Microsoft Founder & Co-Chair of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and Charlie Munger, Vice Chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, on CNBC's "Squawk Box" (M-F, 6AM-9AM ET) today, Monday, May 8th. Video from the interview is available on CNBC.com.
All references must be sourced the CNBC.
BUFFETT ON MISSING GOOGLE
I DID MISS IT. CHARLIE BROUGHT UP THE FACT THAT WE MISSED IT, TOO. GOOGLE, I SHOULD HAVE HAD SOME INSIGHT INTO IT. GEICO WAS A HEAVY USER VERY EARLY ON. HERE WE SAW VALUE. AT THAT TIME, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE WERE PAYING FOR PER CLICK NOW. WE WERE PAYING $10 OR $12 PER CLICK FOR SOMETHING THAT HAVE NO COST OF GOODS SOLD, AND WE WERE GOING TO KEEP DOING THAT WE COULD SEE THAT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE INSIGHT INTO THAT.
BUFFETT ON GOOGLE
IF I WAS FORCED TO BUY IT OR SHORT IT I'D BUY IT, SAME WAY WITH AMAZON. IT IS A LITTLE HARD WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING AT X AND IT SELLS AT 10X TO BUY IT IT SHOULDN'T BE BUT I CAN JUST TELL YOU PSYCHOLOGICALLY, IT'S HARDER WHEN YOU LOOKED AT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE AND PASSED AT X AND BUY AT 10X. AND THEN BUY IT, IT COST A LOT OF PEOPLE MONEY AT BERKSHIRE. THEY SAW IT AT A LOWER PRICE THEN AND JUST SAID IF IT EVER GETS BACK THERE, I'LL BUY IT. THAT'S A TERRIBLE WAY TO THINK.
BUFFETT ON ADS ON GOOGLE
JUST IMAGINE HAVING SOMETHING EVERY TIME TO JUST HIT A CLICK, YOU KNOW, A CASH REGISTER RUNG SOMEWHERE OUT IN CALIFORNIA. SO, IT WAS AND IS AN EXTRAORDINARY BUSINESS AND IT HAS SOME ASPECTS OF A NATURAL MONOPOLY. I MEAN, IT'S VERY EASY FOR ME WHEN I GO TO A COMPUTER.
BUFFETT ON APPLE
SHARES WHEN WE BOUGHT THEM AT LEAST WERE MUCH MORE REASONABLE IN RELATION TO CURRENT EARNINGS. APPLE DIDN'T HAVE TO DO AS A LOT BETTER IN THE FUTURE THAN THEY WERE DOING AT THE CURRENT TIME. GOOGLE, AMAZON, YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE FUTURE MORE. THEY WELL MAY HAVE A BETTER FUTURE, THAT MAY BE MORE THAN JUSTIFIED.
BUFFETT ON SMARTPHONES
YOU CAN'T MOVE PEOPLE BY PRICE IN THE SMARTPHONE MARKET. REMOTELY LIKE YOU CAN MOVE THEM IN APPLIANCES OR ALL KINDS OF THINGS. PEOPLE WANT THE PRODUCT. THEY DONT WANT THE CHEAPEST PRODUCT. AND THE LOYALTY IS HUGE USUALLY HOW – THAT DOESN'T MEAN SOMEBODY CANT COME ALONG WITH A PRODUCT THATS JUST JUMPS IN THE FIELD OR SOMETHING. ONCE YOU HAVE A PRODUCT TO A DEGREE THAT CONTROLS YOUR LIFE, IT'S A VERY, VERY VALUABLE PRODUCT.
BUFFETT ON APPLE IPHONE
APPLE, WITH A NON-NEW PRODUCT – THEY SOLD SOMETHING LIKE 50 MILLION – THAT'S A LOT OF UNITS TO SELL OF SOMETHING AT $700. A LOT OF THOSE ARE GOING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY REPLACING A PRESENT APPLE. BUT THEY DO KNOW THAT A NEW PRODUCT IS GOING TO BE OUT IN SIX MONTHS OR SOMETHING. WHO KNOWS, MAYBE THEY GOT PROMISED AN APPLE FOR THEIR BIRTHDAY OR THEIR GRADUATION. I WOULD BE TEMPTED IF I WERE GOING TO BUY ONE, TO WAIT TIL THE NEW MODEL COMES OUT. WHAT DO I LOSE BY DOING IT EXCEPT THE USE OF ONE IN BETWEEN? THAT'S A LOT OF PRODUCT TO SELL WITH A NEW MODEL COMING OUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT 50 MILLION.
BUFFETT ON NOT INVESTING BASED ON GDP FIGURE
I DO NOT LOOK AT THOSE FIGURES WITH A LOT OF – OBVIOUSLY, WHEN YOU GET INTO THE 2008, 2009 PERIOD WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS FALLING APART, IT'S A PRETTY GOOD GAUGE OF HOW FAST IT'S FALLING APART COMPARED TO SOME EARLIER RECESSION OR SOMETHING. BUT I'VE NEVER MADE A TRADE IN A STOCK BASED ON A GDP FIGURE.
BUFFETT ON THE ECONOMY AND THE RAILS
BASICALLY, THE ECONOMY IS DOING OKAY. WHEN I SAY OKAY, I MEAN, SORT OF THE SAME 2% RATE. NOW, IT'S NOT THAT PRECISE THROUGH THE RAIL FIGURES, BUT ONE THING THAT HAS HELPED WITH RAILS IS THAT NATURAL GAS HAS GONE UP IN PRICE. AND THERE'S A LOT OF COAL THAT DOESN'T MOVE AT $2 NATURAL GAS THAT MOVES AT $3 OR – A LOT.
BUFFETT ON WELLS FARGO
THE REPUTATION HAS BEEN HURT – THE FUNDAMENTAL EARNING POWER OF THE BANK OVER A PERIOD OF YEARS HAS NOT BEEN HURT IN ANY MATERIAL WAY, BUT THE REPUTATION OF THE BANK HAS BEEN HURT. I WOULD ARGUE, PROBABLY, THAT BETTER SYSTEMS WOULD BE IN PLACE THERE NOW, JUST LIKE THEY WERE AT SOLOMON, THAN PROBABLY EXIST AT MOST OF THE COMPETITORS. AND THAT'S TRUE WHEN OTHER BANKS GET SLAMMED DOWN ON WHETHER ITS MORTGAGE THINGS OR SOME TRADING THING. I MEAN, THAT DOES FOCUS THE MIND. AND IT FOCUSES THE DIRECTORS, IT FOCUSES THE MEDIA. SO IN GENERAL, I WOULD BET ON THE PRACTICES BEING BETTER.
BUFFETT ON COCA-COLA JOB CUTS
THERE WILL BE 1,200 JOBS REDUCED AT HEADQUARTERS OF COCA-COLA. NOW COCA-COLA HAS BEEN A VERY, VERY, VERY PROFITABLE COMPANY OVER THE YEARS, AND COULD AFFORD TO HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE AROUND WHO AREN'T REALLY CHANGING PRODUCTIVITY THAT MUCH. BUT, VOLUME HAS LEVELED OFF MORE OR LESS. BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT EVEN IF IT WAS PROSPEROUS, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE MORE PEOPLE DOING IT THAN IT NEEDED. I MEAN, THATS THE GUTS OF CAPITALISM.
BUFFETT ON WHY HE DOESN'T BUY AMAZON
STUPIDITY. I WAS IMPRESSED WITH JEFF EARLY. I NEVER THOUGHT HE COULD PULL OFF WHAT HE DID. AND WHAT IS REALLY – I MEAN, I THOUGHT HE COULD PULL OFF SOMETHING, BUT ON THE SCALE THAT IT HAS HAPPENED. IT'S CHANGED YOUR BEHAVIOR, YOU KNOW, IT HAS CHANGED EVERYBODY IN THE OFFICE'S BEHAVIOR. THE REMARKABLE THING ABOUT JEFF, AND EVERYTHING ELSE, IS HE'S DONE IT IN TWO INDUSTRIES ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY THAT REALLY DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH CONNECTION. I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY PERSON DEVELOP TWO REALLY IMPORTANT INDUSTRIES AT THE SAME TIME.
BUFFETT ON INTEREST RATES
THE MOST IMPORTANT ITEM OVER TIME, AND VALUATION, IS OBVIOUSLY INTEREST RATES. I MEAN, IF INTEREST RATES ARE DESTINED TO BE AT VERY LOW LEVELS – NOT NECESSARILY AS LOW AS THEY ARE NOW – BUT VERY LOW COMPARED TO 100 YEAR AVERAGES OR 50 YEAR AVERAGES, IT MAKES ANY STREAM OF EARNINGS FROM INVESTMENT WORTH MORE MONEY. I MEAN IF YOU'RE – THE BOGEY IS ALWAYS WHAT GOVERNMENT BONDS YIELD.
BUFFETT ON STOCKS VERSUS BONDS
I WOULD SAY THAT ANYBODY THAT PREFERS BONDS TO STOCKS IS MAKING A BIG MISTAKE. I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR. I DON'T – I WON'T SAY THAT UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT, IT IS RIDICULOUS IN MY VIEW FOR SOMEBODY TO BUY A 30-YEAR BOND AND SOME COUNTRIES 50 YEAR BONDS AND SO ON, AT THESE RATES, IN PREFERENCE TO BUYING STOCKS. STOCKS WILL BOUNCE AROUND A LOT MORE AND THEY CAN GO DOWN 50%, BUT A 30-YEAR BOND CAN GO DOWN 50%, TOO, AT THESE RATES. BONDS ARE A TERRIBLE CHOICE AGAINST STOCKS.
BUFFETT ON THE TOP FIVE BUSINESSES IN THE U.S.
IF YOU TAKE SAY THE FIVE LARGEST BUSINESSES IN THE COUNTRY BY MARKET VALUE, YOU'RE PROBABLY – AND ASSUMING BERKSHIRE ISN'T IN THERE, IT FLIPS IN AND OUT, LETS ASSUME WE'RE OUT – THOSE FIVE BUSINESSES HAVE A MARKET VALUE OF $2.5 TRILLION OR MORE, YOU KNOW, STARTING WITH APPLE. YOU COULD RUN THOSE FIVE BUSINESSES WITH NO EQUITY CAPITAL. SO YOU HAVE CLOSE TO 10% OF THE MARKET VALUE PERHAPS OF THE UNITED STATES IN FIVE EXTREMELY GOOD BUSINESSES THAT ESSENTIALLY TAKE NO CAPITAL. NOW, THAT WAS NOT THE CASE IN THE PAST.
BUFFETT ON GETTING RICH VERY EASILY
IF YOU CAN FIND BUSINESSES THAT DON'T TAKE CAPITAL AND THEY EARN A LOT OF MONEY, THAT'S HOW YOU CAN BECOME RICH VERY EASILY AND VERY EARLY. NOW, IT ISN'T SO EASY TO COME UP WITH IT, BUT YOU CAN GET THE CAPITALIZED VALUE OF SOMETHING AND NOBODY SAYS, "YEAH, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE $100 BILLION TO BUILD IT."
BUFFETT ON TRADE
I DON'T BLAME ANYBODY FOR VOTING AGAINST THE SYSTEM THAT THEY THINK IS BYPASSING THEM AND JUST THROWING THEM ASIDE. BECAUSE IF YOU'RE A 55-YEAR-OLD STEELWORKER OR A 55-YEAR-OLD SHOE MANUFACTURER, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN A NEW TRADE. AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER JOB THAT'S GOOD. AND, YEAH, SOCIETY HAS TO TAKE CARE OF THEM, BECAUSE IT'S ACHIEVING AS A SOCIETAL OBJECTIVE, WHICH IS TO GET MORE OUTPUT PER CAPITA.
BUFFETT ON UNITED CEO OSCAR MUNOZ
THE NATURAL TENDENCY, IF YOU'VE GOT 80,000 EMPLOYEES AND YOU'RE ABOUT – SOME INCIDENT IS TO DEFEND YOUR EMPLOYEES, BUT IT WOULDN'T BE YOUR NATURAL TENDENCY IF YOU'D SEEN THE TAPE. SO I DON'T KNOW, PRECISELY. IN EITHER CASE IT WAS A MISTAKE. IN ONE CASE IT WAS AN EGREGIOUS MISTAKE. AND YOU KNOW, HE'S APOLOGIZED MANY TIMES. BUT, YOUR FIRST REACTION IS GOING TO GET A LOT OF ATTENTION.
BUFFETT ON CUSTOMER SERVICE
YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BE TREATING EVERYBODY THEY MEET IN BUSINESS AS IF IT'S THE PERSON THEY LOVE THE MOST. I MEAN, AT GEICO, WE'VE GOT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ON THE PHONE AND THEY'RE JUST GETTING CALLS ALL THE TIME. AND I LIKE THEM TO HAVE A PICTURE OF WHOMEVER THEY LOVE THE MOST, YOU KNOW, BE IT THEIR MOTHER, THEIR WIFE, THEIR DOG – WHATEVER IT IS, BE TALKING TO THAT PERSON, BECAUSE IT REALLY COMES THROUGH.
BUFFETT ON CORPORATE TAX VERSUS HEALTH CARE
YOU PROBABLY HEAR MORE FROM BUSINESS LEADERS ABOUT CORPORATE TAXES. BEING CAUSING THEM TO FIGHT WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND THEIR BACK IN TERMS OF FOREIGN COMPETITION. CORPORATE TAX AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP HAVE GONE DOWN FROM 4% IN 1960 TO 2%. SO THEY'VE BEEN CUT IN HALF AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP. BUT HEALTH CARE HAS GONE FROM 5% OF GDP TO 17% OF GDP. AND BUSINESS PAYS A LOT OF THE HEALTH CARE COST.
BUFFETT ON HEALTH CARE
BUT HEALTH CARE HAS GONE FROM 5% OF GDP TO 17% OF GDP. AND BUSINESS PAYS A LOT OF THE HEALTH CARE COST…AND HEALTH CARE IS ONE-SIXTH OF THE WHOLE ECONOMY. WE'VE HAD A 12-POINT MOVEMENT AGAINST AMERICAN BUSINESS AND IT CONTINUES. AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING NECESSARILY IN THE HORIZON THAT WOULD CAUSE THAT NUMBER TO BE, I THINK IT'S MORE LIKELY TO GO UP THAN DOWN UNLESS WE CHANGE SOMETHING FUNDAMENTAL. WHEN SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED TO THAT EXTENT YOU BETTER NOT COUNT ON IT REVERSING ITSELF FROM NATURAL CAUSES THERE'S A REASON WHY IT IS HAPPENING AND YOU BETTER ATTACK THE REASON IF YOU CARE ABOUT CHANGING THE COURSE OF THE COST.
BUFFETT ON HEALTH COSTS
IT'S AN UNUSUAL SYSTEM, THOUGH. IN THAT THE INNOVATION, AND HEAVY RESEARCH AND ALL THAT IS VERY, VERY, VERY LARGELY CONCENTRATED ON COMING UP WITH BETTER PRODUCTS WHICH WE'D LOVE TO HAVE. BUT YOU DON'T SEE THEM HANDING OUT ANY AWARDS FOR BRINGING DOWN COSTS. I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE A STEEL BUSINESS, OR A RETAIL BUSINESS, I MEAN, YOU – YOU'RE TRYING TO OFFER A BETTER PRODUCT ALL THE TIME TO YOUR CUSTOMER. YOU'RE ALSO TRYING TO BRING DOWN COSTS WITH A VENGEANCE AT THE SAME TIME. AND THAT I DON'T THINK THAT EXISTS IN THE MEDICAL BUSINESS. AND IT'S 17% OF THE ECONOMY.
BUFFETT ON TAX CUTS FOR RICH
I'M $680,000 BETTER OFF IF EVERYTHING ELSE IS EQUAL JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK. NOW, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE SENATE, MAY GET CHANGES IN CONGRESS AND A LOT OF OTHER THINGS BUT IT WAS HUGE WHAT THEY DID ON CUTTING TAXES FOR THE RICH IN THIS. I MEAN, IF THERE'S ONE CLEAR CUT MESSAGE THAT COMES OUT OF THAT BILL IT IS WE'RE GOING TO CUT THE HELL OUT OF INCOME TAXES FOR THE RICH ON INVESTMENT INCOME.
BUFFETT ON TAX RATE
I CAN'T THINK OF ANY BUSINESS WHERE WE'RE IN WHERE OUR TAX RATE PUTS AT A – AND WE'RE IN A LOT OF BUSINESSES, SIGNIFICANT DISADVANTAGE WITH FOREIGN COUNTRIES. FOR ONE THING OURS AREN'T AS HIGH AS WE THINK THEY ARE IN MANY CASES. THEY'RE NOT AS LOW ELSEWHERE.
BUFFETT ON DYNAMIC SCORING
EVERYBODY THAT WANTS A CUT IN TAXES CAN HIRE SOME ACADEMICS AND THEY LOOK FOR DYNAMIC SCORING AND THEY SAY THE COUNTRY WILL REALLY BE BETTER OFF IF I PAY LESS TAX. I DON'T BLAME THEM IT'S VERY UNDERSTANDABLE SO BE VERY VERY VERY SUSPICIOUS OF DYNAMIC SCORING.
BUFFETT ON TRUMP
NO, I NEVER CALLED A PRESIDENT IN MY LIFE. NEVER. AND I NEVER REALLY SENT MESSAGES TO A PRESIDENT THROUGH A CABINET MEMBER OR ANYTHING OF THE SORT. SO -- AND OBVIOUSLY, I HAVE NOT DONE SO WITH TRUMP EITHER SO OUR -- AND I NEVER – BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY PARENT NOW, THE SUBSIDIARIES, THEY HAVE SPECIFIC INTERESTS IN RAILROADS OR UTILITY, THEY HAVE EMPLOYED LOBBYISTS I KNOW THEY HAVE AND MADE POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS. BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY PARENT HAS NEVER TO MY KNOWLEDGE EMPLOYED A LOBBYIST AND CERTAINLY HAS NEVER MADE A CONTRIBUTION IN 52 YEARS TO A POLITICAL CANDIDATE FROM THE DOG CATCHER UP TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
MUNGER ON HEALTH CARE
THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS COCKAMAMIE . IT'S ALMOST RIDICULOUS IN ITS COMPLEXITY. AND ITS STEADILY INCREASING COSTS, AND WARREN IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IT GIVES OUR COMPANIES A BIG DISADVANTAGE IN COMPETING WITH OTHER MANUFACTURERS. THEY'VE GOT SINGLE PAYER MEDICINE AND WE'RE PAYING IT OUT OF THE COMPANY.
MUNGER ON NOT BEING A NORMAL REPUBLICAN
CHARLIE MUNGER: I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE SINGLE PAYER MEDICINE EVENTUALLY AND I THINK WE SHOULD SQUEEZE A LOT OF THE FRAUD AND FOLLY OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
BECKY QUICK: YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN, SO –
MUNGER: YES, BUT I'M NOT A NORMAL REPUBLICAN.
MUNGER ON UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE
YOU CAN OPT OUT AND BUY YOUR OWN. YOU CAN GO TO SOME OTHER COUNTRY AND GET YOUR MEDICAL CARE. OR YOU CAN TAKE THE STATE. BUT NOBODY IN ANY OF THESE ADVANCED COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CANADA, HAS THE LEAST INTEREST OF GIVING UP MEDICARE FOR – I MEAN MEDICINE FOR ALL….AND IT HASN'T RUINED THEIR CAPITALISM EITHER. LIKE CANADA DOESN'T HAVE ANY CAPITALISM.
MUNGER ON TAXES
WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE ARTIFICIALLY SHIFTING MONEY TO SOME FOREIGN PLACE TO AVOID U.S. TAXES. BUT IT'S NOT ARTIFICIAL IF YOU'RE REALLY MAKING THE MONEY IN THE FOREIGN PLACE AND THEY DON'T HAVE HIGH TAXES. WHY DO WE CARE IF SOMEBODY MAKES A LOT OF MONEY IN SOME FOREIGN PLACE AND BRINGS IT BACK AS A LOW TAX? I THINK THERE'S A LOT – HAVING ALL THIS MONEY PILE UP ABROAD AND BORROWING UNOFFICIALLY, IT'S A COCKAMAMIE SYSTEM.
MUNGER ON FRAUD
FRAUD RUNS RAMPANT. IT JUST FEEDS ON ITSELF LIKE CANCER. SO YOU'VE GOT TO CONSTANTLY POLICE IT. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST WON'T DO THE WORK. IT'S A HUGE MISTAKE. BECAUSE YOU'RE RUINING YOUR COUNTRY, AS EVERYBODY GETS SUCKED INTO THE FRAUD AND THEY DO IT BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE HAS BEEN DOING IT. SO I'M A GREAT BELIEVER IN COMING DOWN HARD ON THAT STUFF. WAY HARDER THAN THE GOVERNMENT DOES AND OTHER PEOPLE DO.
MUNGER ON BUYING COMPANIES
WE HAVE AN ARMY OF PEOPLE IN – FINANCE AND WE'VE GOT AN ARMY OF PEOPLE IN SO-CALLED SHADOW BANKING, WHO ARE FINANCING THESE DEALS BY ANY COMPANIES THAT WANT IT WITH A LIBERAL LEVERAGE. AND OF COURSE THEY PAY HIGH PRICES. THEY GET PART OF THE UPSIDE AND THEY DON'T TAKE ANY OF THE DOWNSIDE AND THEY GET FEES OFF THE TOP. SO IT'S FEE DRIVEN BUYING AND IT'S VERY EXTREME. OF COURSE IT MAKES IT HARD FOR US TO BUY COMPANIES.
GATES ON THE TECH SECTOR
I DON'T THINK THAT THE SUCCESS OF THE TECHNOLOGY SECTOR WILL BE IMPROVED BY SOME TAX CHANGE. THE TECH COMPANIES ARE NOT STARVING RIGHT NOW AND THIS ONLY COMES UP WHEN YOU HAVE PROFITS. AND THESE COMPANIES HAVE VERY HIGH PROFITS.SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE GOING TO BE STRONGER IN THE TECH SECTOR BY MAKING OWNERS OF THOSE STOCKS RICHER.
GATES ON REX TILLERSON
I'M SURE I'LL BE TALKING WITH HIM A LOT MORE BECAUSE WE'RE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH PART OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT CALLED USAID THAT IS DELIVERING THAT $30 BILLION. AND WE'RE ALWAYS GETTING SMARTER ABOUT HOW WE MEASURE IT, HOW WE DO IT IN A SMARTER WAY. AND SO, HE'LL BE A KEY PARTNER FOR US.
GATES ON THE MARKET
THE MULTIPLES ARE FAIRLY HIGH AND THAT'S BECAUSE, AS WARREN SAYS, IT'S ALL BENCH MARKED TO THE INTEREST RATES. SO, IF INTEREST RATES GO UP A LOT, YOU'D EXPECT SOME RETREAT FROM THESE LEVELS.
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