WHEN: Today, Tuesday, November 11th at 10AM ET
WHERE: CNBC's "Squawk on the Street"
Following is the unofficial transcript of a CNBC EXCLUSIVE interview with Alibaba Founder & Executive Chairman Jack Ma, the richest man in China, today on CNBC's "Squawk on the Street" (M-F, 9AM-11AM ET). Clips as well as the full interview will be available on CNBC.com.
All references must be sourced to CNBC.
DAVID FABER: I'M DAVID FABER IN HANGZHOU CHINA AT ALIBABA'S HEADQUARTERS HERE AND OF COURSE WE ARE JOINED BY THE AFOREMENTIONED JACK MA, THE EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN AND FOUNDER OF ALIBABA. THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
JACK MA: THANK YOU DAVID FOR COMING ALL THE WAY TO CHINA AND INTRODUCING ALIBABA SINGLES' DAY TO AMERICANS.
DAVID FABER: YOU ARE WELCOME. I HAVE LEARNED A LOT OVER THE LAST 48 HOURS I EXPECT TO LEARN EVEN MORE DURING OUR CONVERSATION AS WELL. YOU JUST VISITED THE AUDITORIUM WHERE OUR VIEWERS HAVE WATCHED THE RUNNING TALLY OF HOW MUCH HAS BEEN SOLD OVER THESE LAST 23 HOURS, ONE MORE HOUR TO GO. I THINK WE ARE AT ABOUT $8.7 BILLION AT LEAST AT LEAST 54 BILLION RMB. WHAT DO THOSE NUMBERS MEAN TO YOU?
JACK MA: WELL IT MEANS A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY YOU HAVE GOT TO DELIVER ALL THESE PACKAGES IN THE NEXT 3 TO 5 DAYS AND I THINK IT MEANS A LOT IN THE DOMESTIC DEMAND OF CHINA IS HUGE AND THE INTERNET CAN REALLY CHANGE CHINA YOUNG PEOPLE AND I FEEL EXCITED BUT I FEEL WORRIED MORE NOW BECAUSE I WISH THERE WILL BE NO SNOW NO RAIN THE NEXT 3 TO 5 DAYS.
DAVID FABER: I THINK I LOOKED AT THE BOARD WHEN YOU WENT INSIDE I THINK IT WAS 260 MILLION PACKAGES YOU HAVE TO DELIVER THAT'S AN AWFUL LOT GIVEN I THINK YOUR AVERAGE IS ABOUT 16.6 MILLION MAYBE 17 MILLION A DAY.
JACK MA: YEAH THE TOTAL IN CHINA AVERAGE PROBABLY AROUND 13 MILLION PACKAGES PER DAY BUT NOW TODAY IT WILL BE LIKE 10 TIMES BIGGER THAN THAT. AND I THINK MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVING DELIVER THINGS ALL THE TRAFFIC HERE RIGHT NOW WATCH VERY CAREFULLY WHICH I WAS TOLD LIKE 500 INTERSECTIONS OF THE LOGISTIC CENTERS WILL BE WATCHED.
DAVID FABER: YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING TO BE UP TO THE CHALLENGE? ARE YOU GOING TO GET MOST OF THOSE PACKAGES TO PEOPLE IN THE NEXT THREE DAYS?
JACK MA: I HOPE SO ACTUALLY SO FAR THE WEATHER IS OK. WE DO NOT SEE THE SNOW, WE DON'T SEE THE RAIN BUT WE SEE THE APEC RIGHT NOW IN BEIJING I WAS TOLD TOMORROW IS GOING TO BE FINISHED SO HOPE EVERYTHING GOES OUT SMOOTH.
DAVID FABER: RIGHT APPARENTLY THE PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO SEE THE SUN IN BEIJING TOO BECAUSE OF APEC. THEY CLOSED DOWN A LOT OF THE FACTORIES. DOUBLE ELEVEN IN 2009 WAS NOT MUCH OF ANYTHING, LAST YEAR $5.8 BILLION, THIS YEAR LET'S FIGURE AT LEAST $9 BILLION HOW MUCH CAN THIS GROW?
JACK MA: WELL I THINK I JUST TOLD THE PEOPLE HERE I THINK THIS IS NUMBER 6 AND ON THE 10 YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF DOUBLE ELEVEN DAY I WISH IT WILL BE A GLOBAL SHOPPING DAY. FOR THE UNITED STATES, FOR EUROPE FOR ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. SO I REALLY CAN NOT IMAGINE HOW BIG THAT WILL BE BECAUSE I WANT MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED MORE COMPANIES INVOLVED MORE OFFLINE THE SHOPS INVOLVED. IT IS GOING TO BE BIG. I DON'T KNOW THIS DAY I JUST THINK THE NUMBER TODAY I AM HAPPY ABOUT THAT. BECAUSE YESTERDAY AFTERNOON I WAS IN A MEETING AND PEOPLE DISCUSSING HOW CAN WE SOMEWAY CONTROL THE SALES BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO EXPLODE THE LOGISITICS SYSTEM.
DAVID FABER: RIGHT WELL WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET HOPEFULLY YOU HAVEN'T ALTHOUGH AGAIN 300 MILLION PACKAGES OR WHATEVER IT MAY END UP BEING IS AN AWFUL LOT. IS IT REALISTIC FOR YOU TO THINK THAT YOU COULD BE GLOBAL IN THAT WAY THAT EVEN IN THE STATES WE WILL CELEBRATE SINGLES' DAY TO A CERTAIN EXTENT GIVEN WE BUY AN AWFUL LOT OF STUFF OVER THERE ALREADY AND WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF DAYS IN THE STATES CERTAINLY WHERE WE'RE EYEING THINGS. YOU KNOW 67% OF THE ECONOMY IS CONSUMPTION A LOT DIFFERENT THAN HERE IN CHINA.
JACK MA: WELL I THINK ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY THERE WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE MANY-- SIX YEARS AGO—IN THE PAST SEVEN YEARS PEOPLE ARE CHALLENGING US. DO YOU THINK CHINESE PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY ENOUGH THINGS, WHY DO YOU WANNA BUY IT? 'CAUSE WE MAKE THIS DAY IT IS NOT AN ONLINE PURELY SALES DAY . IT IS A DAY THAT THE MANUFACTURER, THE BUSINESS GUYS COMMUNICATE WITH THE CONSUMERS. CONSUMERS, IT'S THE WAY THEY KNOW THE INNOVATION, THE NEW PRODUCTS, THE NEW TRENDS OF EVERY YEAR-- OF THE BUSINESS. SO I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, IF THEY KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE PRODUCTS NOT ONLY FROM CHINA, PRODUCTS FROM PHILIPPINES, KENYA AND AFRICA, ARGENTINA,-- AND ALL THESE NATIONS, IT WILL BE UNIQUE. I THINK WE HAVE CONFIDENCE THE ONLY THING-- YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T-- YOU DON'T EXPECT TO HAPPEN NEXT YEAR, BUT MAYBE EXPECT TO HAPPEN IN FIVE YEARS.
DAVID FABER: IN FIVE YEARS? AND YOU DO BELIEVE THAT WHEN AND IF THAT TIME COMES IN THE STATES AND IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THAT YOU CAN DIFFERENTIATE THE ALIBABA PLATFORMS, WHETHER-- WHATEVER IT BE, ALIEXPRESS OR TAOBAO OR TMALL, IF THEY MAKE IT OVER THERE IN SOME WAY, YOU THINK YOU CAN DIFFERENTIATE THEM FROM THE AMAZONS AND THE EBAYS OF THE WORLD?
JACK MA: YEAH, YEAH, OF COURSE. I THINK-- YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE QUESTION JUST, LIKE, FIVE YEARS AGO PEOPLE CHALLENGE US. CAN ALIBABA BE BIGGER THAN AMAZON, OKAY, CAN ALIBABA BE BIGGER THAN EBAY. WELL, TRUST THE YOUNG PEOPLE, TRUST THIS GENERATION'S INNOVATION. THEY'RE MAKING THINGS, CHANGING INNOVATION EVERY DAY. AND ALL THE CONSUMERS ARE THE SAME THEY WANT NEW THINGS, THEY WANT CHEAP THINGS, THEY WANT GOOD THINGS, THEY WANT UNIQUE THINGS, IF WE CAN CREATE THESE KIND OF THINGS FOR CONSUMERS, THEY WILL COME.
DAVID FABER: AND YOU THINK YOU'VE BEEN DOING THAT HERE IN CHINA?
JACK MA: YEAH, 'CAUSE-- IT ACTUALLY IS-- VERY DIFFICULT TO DO IN CHINA BECAUSE WE ARE SO SCATTERED WE'RE EVERYWHERE. AND I MEAN, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT-- IF WE CAN DO IN CHINA, WHY WE CANNOT DO IN THE STATES?
DAVID FABER: BUT YOU BENEFITED HERE IN CHINA AS WELL FROM THE ABSENCE OF A LOT OF BRICK AND MORTAR STORES. THERE IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR AS MANY RETAIL STORES HERE AS THERE ARE IN THE U.S. OR GERMANY OR JAPAN. AND YOU'VE BENEFITED IT WOULD SEEM AS WELL FROM THE GROWTH OF THE WIRELESS BUSINESS FOR EXAMPLE. SO MUCH OF YOUR TRANSACTIONS NOW IS ON A MOBILE PHONE. THOSE ARE ADVANTAGES THAT YOU GOT BECAUSE YOU WERE FIRST, AREN'T THEY?
JACK MA: WELL, YEAH, THEY ARE-- THIS IS AN ADVANTAGE, BUT THERE ARE ALSO DISADVANTAGES THAT THE CHINESE CONSUMERS DOES NOT HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY LIKE THE WESTERNERS, RIGHT? AND WE ARE TRYING TO HELP IN THE REMOTE AREAS, THE VILLAGES, HOW WE CAN GET PEOPLE SHOPPING ONLINE NOW. 'CAUSE-- 'CAUSE I THINK THE NEXT THREE-- TWO, THREE YEARS THE MONEY IS BIG, BUT THE MONEY IS NOT THAT BIG. SO WE HAVE TO PAY-- WE HAVE TO WAIT PATIENTLY FOR ANOTHER SIX, EIGHT YEARS. SO THE AMERICANS, I THINK THEY DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, THINK, "WELL, WE HAVE PLENTY OF CHINA'S PRODUCTS, SO WE DON'T WANNA BUY ONLINE WE HAVE PLENTY OF PRODUCTS." BUT YOU WILL SEE WHEN YOU HAVE REALLY GOOD PRODUCTS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, WHEN YOU REALLY GIVE THEM THE GOOD PRICE, WHEN YOU REALLY GIVE THEM GOOD SERVICES, SURPRISE, THEY WILL DO IT.
DAVID FABER: DO YOU THINK CHINA CAN BECOME A CONSUMER-LED ECONOMY? THE CHINESE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN BIG SAVERS. IT'S ONLY 34% OR SO OF YOUR GDP VERSUS TWICE THAT IN THE U.S. I MEAN, CAN YOU EVER APPROACH THAT--
JACK MA: CHANGING SO FAST. SEE, I THINK THE-- I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBERS, BUT I WILL-- I WILL BET 90% OF THE BUYERS TODAY-- I THINK WE HAVE, LIKE, 200 MILLION—MORE THAN 200 MILLION BUYERS TODAY-- 80%, 90% ARE YOUNG PEOPLE. AND THEY'RE NOT-- VERY, YOU KNOW, RICH GUYS. BUT THEY START TO BUY, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT TAKES TIME. NEXT-- I'M ALWAYS-- YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BE PATIENT. NEXT FIVE YEARS, YOU WILL SEE. 'CAUSE-- 'CAUSE FIVE YEARS AGO, EIGHT YEARS AGO, PEOPLE DO NOT BUY-- SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON.. THEY PROBABLY SPENT 200 RMB-- EVERY MONTH. NOW THEY SPEND 2,000 RMBIEVERY MONTH, SO TEN TIMES BIGGER.
DAVID FABER: 307 MILLION ACTIVE USERS, SO YOU'RE SAYING-- MOST OF YOUR ACTIVE USERS ACTED TODAY IT WOULD SEEM?
JACK MA: YEAH-- SO THAT IS WHY I HEARD-- YOU KNOW, THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SPEAK ON THE CHINESE TWITTER, THE WEIBO, SAYING THAT THE-- THEY WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO GIVE THAT DAY FREE TODAY. WE SHOULD HAVE A NATIONAL FREE DAY TO SHOP.
DAVID FABER: YOU MENTIONED OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, AMAZON AND BEING BIGGER THAN AMAZON. YOU AND I SPOKE WHEN THE COMPANY WENT PUBLIC ON SEPTEMBER 19TH. IN THE DAYS SINCE THEN, THE WEEKS SINCE THEN, YOUR STOCK PRICE HAS JUST GONE STRAIGHT UP. IT'S UP 70+%. YOU NOW ARE BIGGER IN MARKET VALUE THAN WALMART-- WALMART. WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?
JACK MA: WELL, ACTUALLY I'M A BIT NERVOUS. I'M HUMBLE 'CAUSE I THINK MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE SAY, "WELL, ALIBABA'S TERRIBLE COMPANY." AND I KNOW WE WERE NOT THAT TERRIBLE. WE'RE PRETTY GOOD, WE'RE BETTER THAN PEOPLE THOUGHT. BUT TODAY WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A HIGH EXPECTATION ON YOU AND I START TO WORRY AND NERVOUS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THAT GOOD YET.
WE ARE A COMPANY ONLY 15 YEARS OLD. WE ARE RUNNING INTERNET BUSINESS-- EBUSINESS IN CHINA. AND AVERAGE AGE OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE IS ONLY 28 YEARS OLD. WELL, SO IT'S A YOUNG COMPANY, YOUNG INDUSTRY AND IT'S NOT EASY. BUT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE HIGH EXPECTATION ON YOU, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT-- I WANT TELL MYSELF AND TELL OUR TEAM, "BE OURSELF, DO WHATEVER WE BELIEVE IS RIGHT." SO I DON'T-- I EVEN DON'T DARE TO WATCH THE STOCK PRICE 'CAUSE THIS IS-- THIS IS-- THIS IS-- THE OTHER PEOPLE THINK WHO YOU ARE. WHEN PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE GOOD, YOU HAVE TO BE SURE THAT-- WHETHER YOU'RE REALLY THAT GOOD. WHEN PEOPLE THINK YOU'RE BAD, WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR WHETHER WE ARE REALLY THAT BAD.
DAVID FABER: YOU DON'T WATCH IT?
JACK MA: I DO NOT WATCH IT. I THINK, WELL, LET THE MARKET TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. WE SHOULD WATCH AND TAKE CARE OF THE BUSINESS.
DAVID FABER: BUT IT IS A REPORT CARD-- I MEAN, ONCE YOU'RE PUBLIC, YOUR EMPLOYEES KNOW, I'M SURE SOME OF THEM HAVE STOCK. IT'S HARD TO NOT LOOK AND GO, "OH MY GOD." AND BAD DAYS --SORT OF FEEL BAD ABOUT IT.
JACK MA: WELL, I THINK WE HAVE-- AS I SAY WE LISTED IN YEAR 2007 IN HONG KONG STOCK EXCHANGE--
DAVID FABER: ALIBABA.COM, RIGHT?
JACK MA: --ALIBABA.COM. SO I SAID WE ARE ALREADY GOT THAT MARRIAGE EXPERIENCE. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS UP AND DOWN-- YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE UP AND DOWN, CAN NEVER DO BUSINESS. SO IT IS GOOD WHEN PEOPLE-- I DON'T WATCH IT, BUT A LOTTA PEOPLE TELLING ME, "WELL, THE STOCK GOT CRAZY. OH, THE STOCK GOING DOWN." SO WHAT? WE JUST FOCUS ON WHAT WE ARE DOING. AND-- 'CAUSE IT GO UP, YOU DON'T SELL, YOU'RE GOING DOWN, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO BUY IT, SO WHAT ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT?
DAVID FABER: RIGHT. ALTHOUGH IT'S HELPFUL TO USE IF YOU WANNA BUY SOMETHING ELSE. I WANNA TAKE A BREAK IN A SECOND, JACK. BUT I DO WANNA GET TO SOME OTHER NEWS ABOUT PUBLIC OFFERINGS THAT-- THAT YOU MADE TODAY IN AN INTERVIEW YOU DID WITH CCTV WHERE YOU DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITY OF TAKING PUBLIC YOUR FINANCIAL SERVICES-- BUSINESS, NOT A PART OF ALIBABA BUT ALIPAY IS MOST WELL KNOWN PART, BUT IT ALSO INCLUDES MICRO LENDING-- AND OF COURSE THAT LARGE MONEY MARKET FUND THAT YOU HAVE. ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE IT PUBLIC?
JACK MA: YEAH, SURE. I THINK WE SHOULD, BECAUSE-- AS A COMPANY WE HAVE TO BE VERY TRANSPARENT. I THINK AFTER GO PUBLIC, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE-- THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WATCH YOU. THAT WOULD MAKE YOU OPERATE CORPORATE GOVERNANCE, TRANSPARENT WILL DO BETTER. 'CAUSE WE ARE IN A BUSINESS VERY RELATED TO FINANCE. AND I WANT THIS COMPANY LAST LONG. I WANT THIS COMPANY TO BE AUDITED BY EVERYONE WHO INVOLVED-- IT'S NOT THE MONEY YOU WANNA GET, IT'S THE TRANSPARENCY WE WANNA GET. IT'S THE CORPORATE GOVERNANCE WE WANNA GET. IT'S THE MORAL SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDINGAND TRUST FROM OTHER PEOPLE. SO I THINK WE DEFINITELY WILL.
DAVID FABER: IS THERE A LACK OF TRUST RIGHT NOW IN THAT PART OF THE BUSINESS? IS THERE CONCERN-- THAT PEOPLE HAVE?
JACK MA: NO-- YEAH, PEOPLE DEFINITELY CONCERNED ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S BEEN GROWING SO FAST. IT'S SO BIG IN CHINA. IT'S LIKE-- YOU KNOW, 90% OF YOUNG PEOPLE WRITING-- IF YOU ARE USING ONLINE PAYMENT USING OUR PAYMENT SYSTEM IN CHINA. AND EVERYBODY SAID, "WOW, THAT BIG? ANYBODY WATCH THAT FOR US?" YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WE'RE USING THE SYSTEM, WE'RE USING WONDERFUL TECHNOLOGY, WE'RE USING EVERY SYSTEM WE COULD. BUT IF-- IF WE COULD BE PUBLIC, MORE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT US, MORE PEOPLE LOOK ON US. THAT WOULD BE GOOD. I CAN SLEEP WELL. IF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WATCH THE COMPANY, I CAN SLEEP WELL.
DAVID FABER: THERE'S A LOTTA THE BIG BANKS THAT PROBABLY AREN'T TOO HAPPY ABOUT THAT BUSINESS, ARE THEY?
JACK MA: WE DO BUSINESS NOT MAKE OTHER PEOPLE, WE DO BUSINESS MAKING CONSUMER HAPPY, OUR CUSTOMER HAPPY. WELL, IF THEY'RE NOT HAPPY, THEY'LL GET USED TO IT. AND I THINK TODAY WE GOT A LOT OF UNDERSTANDING FROM THE BANKS, THEY START TO LOVE US. BECAUSE WE'RE GIVING THEM THE TECHNOLOGY AND KNOW-HOW. WE WANNA HELP THEM SO THEY CAN HELP OUR CONSUMERS OUR CUSTOMER BETTER. SO WE—LAST YEAR THEY'RE NOT HAPPY, THEY'RE VERY ANGRY, WE HAD A LOT OF FIGHTS. BUT THIS YEAR, WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS. WE STARTED UNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER. WE USE DATA TECHNOLOGY, THEY USE IT TECHNOLOGY. THEY KNOW THEY CANNOT KILL US, WE KNOW WE DON'T WANNA KILL THEM. SO WE STARTED WORK TOGETHER.
DAVID FABER: SO THINGS ARE A LITTLE--
JACK MA: MUCH BETTER--
DAVID FABER: MUCH BETTER? YOU EXPLAINED THE--
JACK MA: --YEAH, MUCH BETTER.
DAVID FABER: --VALUE PROPOSITIONS—TO THE BANKS
JACK MA: YEAH, WE TELL THEM, YOU KNOW, "HOW ARE YOU GONNA DO IT?" WE CAN DO MORE EFFICIENTLY, WE CAN DO MUCH CHEAPLY, WE CAN DO MUCH FASTER. AND WHAT WE WANNA DO IS TRY TO SUPPORT THE SMALL BUSINESS. WHAT WE WANNA DO IS SUPPORT CONSUMERS, WHICH USING THEIR TECHNOLOGY, THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DO IT. SO WE START UNDERSTANDING.
DAVID FABER: WHEN DO YOU THINK THE IPO WILL TAKE PLACE? OR I THINK IT'S CALLED ANT IS WHAT YOU GUYS CALL IT IN THE FINANCIAL SERVICES BUSINESS.
JACK MA: WELL, WE DON'T HAVE-- DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW-- WE DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC DATE. BUT I WANT-- YOU KNOW-- THE COMPANY'S ALREADY PRETTY GOOD, PRETTY HEALTHY, VERY STRONG GROWTH. BUT-- HONESTLY I WOULD SAY-- PROBABLY I SHOULD NOT SPEAK HERE, BUT I THINK ALIBABA GO PUBLIC IN SUCH A BIG SIZE, WE SHOULD NOT BE GOING THAT BIG SIZE. LET PEOPLE ENJOY, YOU KNOW, THE-HEALTHY GROWTH OF OUR COMPANY. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN BE THERE SO BIG AND MAKE THE STOCK--
DAVID FABER: --SUCH A FOCUS--
JACK MA: YEAH, RIGHT.
DAVID FABER: --SO YOU DO IT MORE LIKELY IN MAINLAND CHINA THAN IN THE U.S.?
JACK MA: WELL, WE WOULD LOVE TO BECAUSE WE ALWAYS WANT THOSE PEOPLE WHO CAN GET INVOLVED CAN GET BENEFIT FROM IT. YOU KNOW, CHINA DEFINITELY, IT'S A VERY IDEAL PLACE. BECAUSE WHEN YOU SEE, YOU KNOW, 80%, 90% OF YOUNG PEOPLE USING THE SERVICE, IF THEY CAN BUY OUR STOCK IN CHINA, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. BUT WE'RE PRETTY OPEN. YOU KNOW, WE NEVER SAY ONLY IN CHINA, MAYBE SOMEWHERE IN THE WORLD.
DAVID FABER: A LOTTA BANKERS WHO ARE LISTENING RIGHT NOW ARE GONNA BE CHASING AFTER YOU, JACK. WE'RE GONNA TAKE A BREAK. I WANNA TALK ABOUT SOME OTHER NEWS AND SOME OF THE-- SOME OF THE BIGGER ISSUES AS WELL THAT JACK MA HAS SPOKEN ABOUT WITH US IN THE PAST AND WITH OTHERS. WE'RE BACK WITH JACK MA, EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN OF ALIBABA AND OF COURSE THE COMPANY'S FOUNDER RIGHT AFTER THIS.
CARL QUINTANILLA: WELCOME BACK TAKE A LOOK AT THE MARKETS RIGHT NOW. RELATIVELY FLAT TRADING HERE ON THIS VETERANS DAY. THE DOW'S BEING WEIGHED DOWN BY SOME MEDIA NAMES, AT&T, VERIZON JUST TO NAME A COUPLE. AND THE S&P WHICH WAS GOING OR IS GOING FOR FIVE STRAIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE JUNE IS DOWN ABOUT A POINT AS WELL. LET'S GET BACK TO DAVID FABER IN CHINA WITH JACK MA.
DAVID FABER: THANKS VERY MUCH, CARL. AS YOU SAID WE ARE BACK HERE IN HANGZHOU, CHINA WITH JACK MA. JACK, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ALIPAY AND THAT BUSINESS IT'S A PART OF BEFORE THE BREAK. BY THE WAY, I SHOULD MENTION ABOUT 37.5%, I BELIEVE, OF THE PROFITS FROM THAT GO TO ALIBABA. AND IF THERE WAS AN IPO AS WELL, ALIBABA DOES HAVE THE RIGHT TO PURCHASE IS IT THIRTY-THREE PERCENT?
JACK MA: THIRTY-THREE, YEAH.
DAVID FABER: ON ALIPAY, A LOT OF TALK LATELY ABOUT APPLE. ABOUT PERHAPS A PARTNERSHIP. I THINK YOU MET WITH TIM COOK NOT LONG AGO. IS A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN ALIPAY AND APPLE PAY A POSSIBILITY HERE IN CHINA OR ANYWHERE?
JACK MA: NOTHING IS -- YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING'S POSSIBLE. I RESPECT APPLE. IT'S A GREAT COMPANY THAT CHANGED THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY THE MOBILE TIME. AND I LIKE, YOU KNOW, TIM COOK'S VISION AND EXECUTION, PERFECT. WE HAD A GREAT DISCUSSIONS AND I THINK BOTH ARE INTERESTED. GOOD THINGS TAKES TIME, SO WE'RE PRETTY PATIENT. AND WE ARE RIGHT NOW WORKING ON THE TEAMS ARE DISCUSSING NOT ONLY ON A PAYMENT BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE, BECAUSE WE BELIEVE… IS A LIFESTYLE AND APPLE'S A LIFESTYLE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS WE CAN WORK TOGETHER AND IMPROVE IT. AND ALIPAY DEFINITELY BOTH SIDES ARE INTERESTE
- DAVID FABER: RIGHT. WHEN YOU SAY THE OTHER SIDE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
JACK MA: WELL, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVING THE CLOUD AND, YOU KNOW, APPLE CLOUD AND ALSO THE APPLE – THEY WANT TO SELL THESE PHONES HERE. PROBABLY CHINA IS THE BES
- DAVID FABER: I WAS WATCHING YOUR – APPLE IS NUMBER FOUR ON THE BOARD UNDER PHONES AND THERE'S NO DISCOUNTING.
JACK MA: YEAH, YOU KNOW, THE ONLY THING THAT DON'T—THEY DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH PRODUCTS HERE ENOUGH AMOUNT OF THEM – PHONES TO BE SOLD ON OUR SITE. BECAUSE I BET IF YOU STARTED SELL THE IPHONES ON OUR TMALL AND TAOBAO, IT WOULD BE AMAZING, IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT – THE RESULT WOULD BE AMAZING.
DAVID FABER: SO IF YOU WERE TO DO A PARTNERSHIP OF SOME KIND, YOU WOULD WANT IT NOT JUST TO BE ABLE PAYMENTS BUT TO BE SORT OF BROADER? A BIGGER CIRCLE OF THINGS.
JACK MA: YEAH. COMPANIES LIKE APPLE AND ALIBABA, IF WE DO SOMETHING WE SHOULD LOOK IN THE LONG VIEW, YOU KNOW, TERM, RIGHT? WE SHOULD THINK OUT OF BOX. THE PAYMENT IS JUST ONE OF THE THINGS. IF IT CAN BE DONE, GREAT. IF IT CANNOT BE DONE, DOES NOT STOP US DOING THE OTHER THING
- DAVID FABER: RIGHT. YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE IN DOING – IN DESCRIBING WHAT YOU MIGHT – WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN WITH APPLE ONE DAY, YOU GIVE PEOPLE A SENSE OF THE ECOSYSTEM AT ALIBABA.
JACK MA: YEAH.
DAVID FABER: AND I THINK IN THE U.S. PARTICULARLY WHERE PEOPLE ARE WATCHING THIS RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A SENSE THAT, "WELL, THEY'RE SIMILAR TO AMAZON, OR MAYBE IT'S EBAY," BUT IT'S NOT REALLY. IT'S MUCH MORE THAN THAT. YOU TALK ABOUT THE ECOSYSTEM A LOT, YOU WRITE ABOUT IT IN YOUR SHAREHOLDER LETTER THAT ACCOMPANIED THE PROSPECTUS. BUT WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN?
JACK MA: WELL, WE ARE ACTUALLY THE UNIQUE THING THAT PEOPLE CANNOT AND WHEN THE U.S. INVESTOR, THEY BUY CHINA INTERNET STOCK, THEY SAY, "OH, THIS IS YOU KNOW, CHINA GOOGLE," OR, "THIS IS THE CHINA GOOGLE, CHINA APPLE."
DAVID FABER: YOUTUBE.
JACK MA: YOUTUBE. AMAZON. RIGHT.
DAVID FABER: RIGHT, WE'VE GOT A NAME FOR IT ALL. THE CHINA FACEBOOK. RIGHT.
JACK MA: YEAH. BUT ALIBABA IS PROBABLY SO UNIQUE, RIGHT. IT LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, EBAY, LOOKS LIKE AN AMAZON, LOOKS LIKE A GOOGLE. YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL COMBINED TOGETHER. LOOKS LIKE A FACEBOOK, YOU KNOW. WE'RE COMBINED. BECAUSE WE BELIEVE HELPING SMALL BUSINESS, YOU SHOULD HAVE AN ECOSYSTEM, GET MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED. IT IS – YOU HAVE A BIG COMPANY, IF YOU SERVE A BIG COMPANY, YOU CAN GIVE A SOLUTION TO THEM. BUT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF SMALL BUSINESSES, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GIVE EACH SMALL BUSINESS A SOLUTION. BUT WE SHOULD GET MORE PARTIES INVOLVED. SO THAT IS THE ECOSYSTEM, WE BELIEVE. AND I'VE BEEN CONTINUE TELLING PEOPLE THAT AN ECOSYSTEM OF AFRICA – THE LIVES ARE NOT DECIDED BY LION, TIGER AND ELEPHANTS. THE LIFE IS DECIDED BY THE MINOR INSECTS, THE TINY INSECTS. THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT CHANGE – DECIDE THE FUTURE OF ECOSYSTEM. SO FOR US, CONSUMERS, SMALL BUSINESS ARE THE KEY. IF WE CAN SERVE THESE CONSUMERS AND SMALL BUSINESS WELL, BIG COMPANIES WILL GET INVOLVED. THEY WILL START, YOU KNOW, COMING. SO IF YOU KEEP GOOD SIZE OF SHRIMPS, ALL THE SHARKS WILL COME. BIG FISH WILL COME.
DAVID FABER: RIGHT. WE SHOULD MENTION YOU HAVE SURPASSED, I'M TOLD IN MY EAR, $9 BILLION NOW ON –
JACK MA: OH, GOOD.
DAVID FABER: YEAH, NOT BAD. THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD DAY'S WORK.
JACK MA: OH, I START TO WORRY BECAUSE HOW CAN WE DELIVER? EVERY DAY – NO – EVERY HOUR THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN DELIVER. BECAUSE THERE WILL BE MILLIONS OF DELIVERY GUYS ON THE STREET. I DON'T WANT THEM GETTING HURT, I DON'T WANT THEM GETTING INJURED. THERE'S NO TRAFFIC ACCIDENT, EVERYTHING'S PEACEFUL. THIS IS ONLY THING I WANT.
DAVID FABER: RIGHT. WELL, YOU WANT A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, TOO, I SHOULD SAY. YOU KNOW, YOU TALK IN FACT SOMETIMES ABOUT THE BIG PICTURE WHEN YOU SAY THINGS LIKE, "WE FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT BUSINESS IN THE 21ST CENTURY MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY." I'VE INTERVIEWED I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANY HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF CEOS, BOTH IN MY HOME COUNTRY AND ABROAD. I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER HEARD ANY OF THEM TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY BEING ONE OF THEIR MAIN RESPONSIBILITIE
- JACK MA: I THINK IT'S NOT THE MAIN RESPONSIBILITY – NOT ONLY THE MAIN RESPONSIBILITY, IT'S THE GREAT OPPORTUNITY. COMPANY LIKE OUR SIZE IN CHINA, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO CATCH ONE OR TWO OPPORTUNITIES THAT CAN MAKE YOU SUSTAIN REAL GROWTH. BECAUSE GOOD OPPORTUNITIES ARE THE…AND BIG COMPANIES WILL START TO GRAB IT. SO WHAT WE BELIEVE THAT A COMPANY LIKE OUR SIZE HAS TO THINK ABOUT, WHAT THE PROBLEM CHINA WILL HAVE IN TEN YEARS. YOU START TO PREPARE NOW. TEN YEARS LATER – THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID. TEN YEARS AGO, 15 YEARS AGO, WE THINK THE ENVIRONMENT FOR SMALL BUSINESS IS SO UNFAIR AND SO UNSOPHISTICATED, HOW WE CAN DO USING INTERNET TO BUILD UP THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR SMALL BUSINESS. SO I WORRY A LOT ABOUT THE CHINA ENVIRONMENT, THE WATER, THE AIR, THE POLLUTION, THE SAFETY OF THE FOOD. THAT'S THE BIG CHALLENGE IN CHINA WE'LL HAVE IN TEN YEARS. HOW WE CAN USE OUR TECHNOLOGY, OUR DATA THAT IN TEN YEARS SOLVE THAT PROBLE
- DAVID FABER: HOW?
JACK MA: WELL –
DAVID FABER: I MEAN, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CLEAN THE AIR UP? I'VE BEEN – HANGZHOU'S SUPPOSED TO BE A BEAUTIFUL CITY, I KNOW IT IS. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT WELL. THE POLLUTION HAS BEEN BAD THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.
JACK MA: I THINK THE POLLUTION, THE WATER, THE AIR, THE GOVERNMENT IS PUTTING A LOT OF EFFORTS ON THAT. AND I THINK EVERYBODY START TO REALIZE HOW SERIOUS IS IT. BUT WHAT I WORRY ABOUT THE WATER, THE AIR MAY CAUSE A LOT OF LUNG CANCER, LIVER CANCER AND STOMACH CANCER BECAUSE OF THE SAFETY OF THE FOOD. SO HOW CAN WE SOLVE THAT PROBLEM? AS I TOLD THE TEAM, IF WE DO RIGHT, I THINK IN TEN YEARS, CHINA SHOULD NOT HAVE A LOT OF HOSPITALS, SHOULD NOT HAVE A LOT OF FACTORIES MAKING MEDICINES, SHOULD NOT HAVE A LOT OF DOCTORS. WE SHOULD BE MAKING SURE THAT CHINA HAS LESS HOSPITALS, FEWER DOCTORS, FEWER MEDICINES. IN THAT WAY, THAT MEANS WE SOLVED THE SOCIAL PROBLEM
- DAVID FABER: I DON'T MEAN TO DOUBT A MAN WHO BEGAN THIS COMPANY 15 YEARS AGO IN YOUR APARTMENT, BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COMPANY'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO SOLVE THOSE KINDS OF MASSIVE PROBLEMS.
JACK MA: WELL, SEE—
DAVID FABER: YOU HAVE TO GIVE ME SOME SENSE HERE AS TO WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOU
- JACK MA: OKAY, I TELL YOU WHAT. FOR EXAMPLE, FROM WHAT YOU BUY ON TAOBAO, WHAT YOU EAT, WHAT KIND OF VEGETABLES, WHAT KIND OF FRUITS, WHAT KIND OF FISH YOU BUY, YOU KNOW, YOUR LIVING HABITS. WHICH AREA STAYS WITH AIR – CONDITIONED AIR, WHAT THE WATER CONDITIONED AIR AND YOUR DNA, YOUR ALL THE HEALTH CHECK. THE DATA, THE MACHINES WILL TELL YOU, "OKAY, YOU GOT THIS PROBLEM. YOU HAVE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM." AND THE OTHER THING I WOULD LOVE TO SAY THAT IF YOU SEE SOME CITIES WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CONSUMPTIONS OF LIVER DISEASE, LIVER MEDICINES. THAT WE KNOW THAT AREA MUST HAVE A WATER PROBLEM. WE SHOULD INVOLVE THE GOVERNMENT. INFORM THE GOVERNMENT, INFORM THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY SHOULD CLEAN THE WATER, DO SOMETHING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF JUST SENDING THEM TO THE HOSPITALS. SO THESE ARE ALL THE BIG DATA CAN HELP. AND I'M VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THAT. I THINK BY GETTING THE DATA WE HAVE, WE CAN PREVENT THESE DISASTERS TO BE HAPPENING INSTEAD OF THE DISASTER COMING, JUST CURE I
- DAVID FABER: SO BIG DATA—
JACK MA: YEAH, BIG DAT
- DAVID FABER: WHICH I'M SURE I WOULD ASSUME YOU HAVE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT BUT ARE ONLY AT THE BEGINNING OF REALLY UNDERSTANDING, YOU BELIEVE CAN ACTUALLY CURE SOME OF THIS SOCIETY'S BIGGEST PROBLEMS?
JACK MA: YEAH, YEAH.
DAVID FABER: THAT'S QUITE A STATEMEN
- JACK MA: WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO DO TEN YEARS LATER BECAUSE 15 YEARS AGO, TEN YEARS AGO TELLING PEOPLE CHINA SOMEDAY WILL HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE SHOPPING ONLINE, WE HAVE, LIKE, 9 BILLION A DAY, PEOPLE SAY, "THIS GUY'S CRAZY."
DAVID FABER: THEY DID? THEY SAID YOU WERE CRAZY? I MEAN, I CAN GET THAT.
JACK MA: OH YEAH. NOBODY BELIEVE IT TEN YEARS AGO. BUT TODAY THEY START TO BELIEVE IT. SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE DATA CAN PREVENT CHINA HAVING LOT OF DISEASE. AND PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE IT. WELL, LET'S SEE TEN YEARS. IF WE KEEP ON DOING THAT, FOCUS ON REALLY SOLVING THE PROBLE
- DAVID FABER: BUT YOU NEED – WOULD SEEM TO ME YOU NEED THE GOVERNMENT TO BE YOUR PARTNER ON THAT.
JACK MA: YEAH, THE GOVERNMENT IS DEFINITELY A VERY ESSENTIAL PARTNER IN OUR ECOSYSTEM, ESPECIALLY IN CHIN
- DAVID FABER: WILL THEY BE A PARTNER IN THAT WAY? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT WOULD BE THE CASE?
JACK MA: I THINK SO. YOU WORK WITH THEM, COMMUNICATE WITH THEM. AS PEOPLE ALWAYS SAY, "WOW, CHINA GOVERNMENT AND CENSORSHIP ON INTERNET HERE AND THERE." BUT I SEE THE POSITIVE SIDE, RIGHT. YEAH, THERE IS SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT, BUT DO SOMETHING THAT MAKE BOTH HAPPY. IF CHINA'S GOVERNMENT IS SO SORT OF CONSERVATIVE, TOO BACKWARDS, TOO CENSORSHIP, HOW CAN CHINA HAVE A TWO – 600 MILLION INTERNET USERS? SO I THINK INTERNET SO NEW TO ANY GOVERNMENT. AND DATA IS SO NEW TO ANY GOVERNMENT. SIT DOWN, TALK TO THEM, LISTEN TO THEM, COMMUNICATE WITH THEM, THEY WILL JOIN IN.
DAVID FABER: IF I'M A SHAREHOLDER IN YOUR COMPANY AND I HEAR YOU SAYING SOME OF THESE THINGS, I WONDER TO MYSELF, "I WANT MY EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN TO NOT BE FOCUSED ON SOLVING THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS. I WANT YOU TO FOCUS ON THE BOTTOM LINE AND ON THE TOP LINE AND DO BETTER AND BETTER AND BETTER." WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE?
JACK MA: WELL, AS I ALWAYS SAY THAT TO ME CUSTOMER NUMBER ONE, EMPLOYEE NUMBER TWO, SHAREHOLDER NUMBER THREE. AND THOSE PEOPLE, SHAREHOLDER NUMBER THREE DOES NOT MEAN THAT I LOOK DOWN UPON THEM OR PREJUDICED OF THEM. BECAUSE WHEN WE DECIDE WHICH WAY TO GO, WE BELIEVE CUSTOMER, SOCIETY NUMBER ONE. AND I THINK THAT THOSE PEOPLE WHO BUY US, THEY BELIEVE OUR PHILOSOPHY. THIS IS HOW WE GET TO TODAY. AND THIS IS HOW WILL LEAD US IN TEN YEARS, SOLVE THE SOCIAL PROBLEM. BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A SOLUTION, SOLVE THAT PROBLEM AND YOU CREATE A DIFFERENT UNIQUE VALUE, YOU WILL BE PAID. AND I'M PRETTY CONFIDENT IN THI
- DAVID FABER: AND IF YOU DON'T SOLVE THOSE PROBLEMS IS ALIBABA IN QUESTION? DOES YOUR FUTURE GET HURT?
JACK MA: NO, NO, NO, I THINK YOU – EVEN IF YOU CANNOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM ABSOLUTELY 100%, BUT IF YOU CAN DO EVEN 20%, 30%, YOU CAN MAKE TONS OF MONEY. MAKING MONEY IS THE RESULT. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO, YOU HAVE TO KNOW VERY CAREFULLY WHAT YOU REALLY WANT TO DO. AND TO US, I THINK THIS IS MY EARLIEST SHAREHOLDER ALWAYS QUESTIONING ME AT THE BEGINNING. "JACK, WHY YOU DOING – WHY YOU WANT TO HELP – FOCUS ON HELPING SMALL BUSINESS? HOW CAN WE MAKE MONEY FROM THE SMALL BUSINESS?" SO I WAS TEN YEARS AGO SAYING WHEN I WATCH THE FORREST GUMP, NOBODY MAKE MONEY BY CATCHING SHARK. PEOPLE MAKE MONEY BY CATCHING THE SHRIMP. SO SOLVING THE PROBLEM FOR SMALL BUSINESS, YOU WILL GET PAID FULL. SOLVE THE PROBLEMS OF THE NATION, OF THE WORLD, YOU WILL GET PAID FULL. AS I SAY, YOU SHOULD HAVE A PHILANTHROPIC HEART THE BUSINESS WAY. YOU SHOULD NOT DO THE OPPOSITE. A BUSINESS MIND INSIDE DOING THE WORK LIKE PHILANTHROPY, NEVER WOR
- DAVID FABER: IT WORKS THE OTHER WAY AROUND?
JACK MA: YEAH, YOU HAVE TO DO, YOU KNOW, BELIEVE WHAT YOU CAN DO AND DO IN THE WAY IN A VERY BUSINESS WAY.
DAVID FABER: YOU MENTIONED FORREST GUMP WHO YOU BROUGHT UP AS WELL WHEN WE TALKED BACK ON SEPTEMBER 19TH DURING YOUR IPO. WHICH LEADS ME TO THE FILM BUSINESS. I KNOW YOU LIKE MOVIES. AND THERE WAS A LOT OF COVERAGE IN OUR MEDIA CERTAINLY ABOUT YOU WENT TO HOLLYWOOD AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SPECULATING JACK MA WANTS TO BUY A FILM STUDIO. DOES JACK MA WANT TO BUY A FILM STUDIO?
JACK MA: NO, NOT NECESSARILY. BUT I WANTED TO LEARN A LOT FROM THE INSPIRATIONS, INNOVATIONS IN HOLLYWOOD. BECAUSE IN TEN YEARS, WE'LL BE FOCUSED ON TWO INDUSTRIES. HEALTH INDUSTRY AND HAPPINESS INDUSTRY. HEALTH INDUSTRY, WHICH I TOLD YOU ABOUT, TEN YEARS LATER I WORRY ABOUT THE YOU KNOW, THE DISEASE. HAPPINESS IS THAT CHINA'S COMING TO THE MIDDLE CLASS. I THINK THE U.S. AND HOLLYWOOD GROW SO FAST THE WAY U.S. GROW FROM, YOU KNOW, THE BIG AMOUNT OF MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE COMING. NEXT TEN, 15 YEARS CHINA WILL HAVE A LOT OF MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE COMING, JUMPING UP. THEY NEED A GOOD CULTURE PRODUCTS. I DON'T WANT TO SEE CHINESE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE A DEEP POCKET BUT SHALLOW MIND. HOLLYWOOD DEFINITELY BRINGS A LOT. AND HOLLYWOOD IF YOU CAN PUT MOVIES, MUSIC AND CINEMA COMBINED WITH COMMERCE, IT WOULD BE GREAT. IT WOULD BE A GREATEST INNOVATION THAT WE CAN HAVE. HELPING CULTURE PRODUCTS MEANWHILE HELPING THE COMMERC
- DAVID FABER: AND MAKING PEOPLE HAPPIER. BUT HOW DOES IT HELP ALIBABA? HOW DOES IT FIT INTO YOUR ECOSYSTEM TO BE PROVIDING MOVIES?
JACK MA: WE HAVE 600 MILLION REGISTERED USERS AND OVER 300 MILLION ACTIVE USERS. AND WE ARE PROBABLY THE LARGEST ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY IN CHINA. EVERY NIGHT, NOT ONLY TODAY, RIGHT, EVERY NIGHT YOU GET 60 MILLION, 80 MILLION YOUNG PEOPLE BROWSING OUR SITE FOR THREE, FOUR HOURS, BUY LITTLE THINGS OR EVEN BUY NOTHING. WHY? THEY'RE HAVING FUN BROWSING. SO THEY NEED GOOD CONTENT. FOR MOVIE, FOR TV SERIES, FOR MUSIC, FOR ONLINE GAMING. THESE ARE THE THINGS THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE NEED. THESE ARE CULTURAL FOO
- DAVID FABER: DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING WHEN YOU WENT TO HOLLYWOOD? DID YOU COME AWAY WITH A LESSON AT ALL FROM – YOU KNOW, THEY CAN BE TOUGH OVER THERE SOME OF THOSE HOLLYWOOD PEOPL
- JACK MA: NO, I DON'T REALLY LEARN FROM THE SUCCESS STORIES. I LEARN FROM – I TRY TO LEARN SOME OF THE MISTAKES THEY MADE. JAPAN THEY ALSO HAVE A BIG APPETITE, MANY YEARS AGO FOR HOLLYWOOD—
DAVID FABER: YES, THEY DID.
JACK MA: THEY FAILED. WE HAVE TO FIND OUT WHY THEY FAILED. BECAUSE I'M THE GUY ONLY INTERESTED IN WHY PEOPLE FAIL. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN WHY PEOPLE SUCCEED. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO LEARN FROM PEOPLE, WHY THEY SUCCEE
- DAVID FABER: RIGHT, ALTHOUGH WE DO LEARN FROM FAILURE AS WELL. I MEAN, YOU TRIED TO START AN INTERNET BUSINESS BACK IN '95 AND IT DIDN'T WORK.
JACK MA: YEAH, I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM MISTAKES I MADE. AND I LEARNED SO MANY FROM THE U.S.A.
DAVID FABER: FROM THE U.S.A., TOO?
JACK MA: FROM THE U.S.A., TOO. YOU KNOW, YOU SEE YAHOO, NETSCAPE AND, YOU KNOW, THE THINGS ARE UP AND DOWN. SO WE HAVE TO THINK IF YOU WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO LEARN FROM THE OTHER SIDE HOW HE SUCCEEDS BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF LUCKY FACTORS INSIDE. BUT THE MISTAKES HUMAN BEING MAKE ARE ALMOST THE SAME. SO WE HAVE TO KNOW – DOING BUSINESS LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO THE BATTLEFIELD, VERY FEW PEOPLE CAN SURVIVE. SO YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO SURVIVE FIRST INSTEAD OF HOW TO BE SUCCESSFU
DAVID FABER: I WANT TO TAKE ONE MORE BREAK. I WANT TO ASK A COUPLE QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM TWITTER, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO LET YOU GO. JACK MA, SIT THERE THOUGH FOR ONE MORE MINUTE. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK HERE ON "SQUAWK ON THE STREET" AND BE BACK WITH JACK MA, EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN AND FOUNDER OF ALIBABA.
SIMON HOBBS: JUST OVER AN HOUR INTO TRADE HERE AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE IN THE MARKETS. FLAT AS A PANCAKE AS YOU CAN SEE. ONE OF THE MAJOR EVENTS OF PEOPLE-- ON FINANCIAL MARKETS TODAY IS DAVID FABER'S INTERVIEW WITH ALIBABA. ALIBABA, OF COURSE SURPASSING $9 BILLION IN SALES ALREADY ON SINGLES DAY-- WITH ABOUT 20 MINUTES TO GO. LET'S CROSS BACK TO DAVID WITH JACK MA. OVER TO YOU, DAVID.
DAVID FABER: THANKS VERY MUCH, SIMON. JACK, WE WERE TALKING A BIT ABOUT HOLLYWOOD AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO LEARN THERE. YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY, I WATCHED YOU WALK INTO THAT AUDITORIUM. I WATCHED YOU GET MOBBED BY PEOPLE WANTING TO JUST TAKE YOUR PICTURE AND EVERYTHING ELSE. YOU ARE A CELEBRITY IN THIS COUNTRY. HAS IT CHANGED THE WAY YOU OPERATE? IS IT A PAIN?
JACK MA: IT IS A PAIN, ESPECIALLY-- FORBES-- I DON'T KNOW WHICH MAGAZINE SAID I'M THE RICHEST GUY OF CHINA, WHICH IS-- A GREAT PAIN 'CAUSE I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BE AND I DON'T WANT TO BE. I JUST WANT TO BE DOING-- I JUST WANT TO DO THE THINGS--
DAVID FABER: YOU DON'T WANNA BE RICH?
JACK MA: THAT I WANT TO—NO NO
DAVID FABER: --YOU STARTED ALIBABA NOT TO BE RICH?
JACK MA: NO, NO.
DAVID FABER: WHY'D YOU START IT?
JACK MA: WELL, I-- I SAID-- YOU KNOW, WHEN I STARTED THE BUSINESS, I ASKED MY WIFE, "DO YOU WANT YOUR HUSBAND TO BE THE RICHEST MAN OR YOU WANT TO BE A RICH-- OR WANT HIM TO BE A RESPECTED BUSINESS?" SHE SAID, "BE A RESPECTED BUSINESS. BECAUSE WE NEVER THOUGHT WE WOULD BE RICH, RIGHT?"
DAVID FABER:BUT YOU ARE. AND SOMETIMES AN ENTREPRENEUR LIKE YOURSELF, THAT TYPICALLY DOES MOTIVATE A LOT OF PEOPLE. CERTAINLY I KNOW-- HAVING DEALT WITH MANY IN SILICON VALLEY FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PEOPLE START BUSINESSES, TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.
JACK MA: WELL, I-- I'M NOT THAT. I WAS JUST TESTING THAT THE-- HOW CAN-- WHAT-- YOU KNOW, WHEN I DO BUSINESS AND WHEN I DO THE INTERNET, CAN I BE SUCCESSFUL? CAN I TRY SOME NEW WAYS? IT'S NOT-- IT'S NOT REALLY-- REALLY-- PEOPLE SAY, "WELL, JACK, YOU KNOW, PLEASE, YOU KNOW, RICH PEOPLE IS GOOD." YEAH, IT'S GOOD. BUT NOT THE RICHEST MAN OF THE WORLD OR OF CHINA, IT'S A GREAT PAIN. 'CAUSE WHEN YOU'RE-- WHEN YOU'RE THE RICHEST PERSON IN THE WORLD, EVERYBODY'S SURROUNDED YOU FOR MONEY. WHEN YOU ARE--
DAVID FABER: YOU FEEL THAT WAY NOW?
JACK MA: YEAH. BUT-- WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY, YOU-- YOU'RE LOOKING FOR MONEY.
DAVID FABER: YOU FIND OUT WHO YOUR REAL FRIENDS ARE, TOO.
JACK MA: I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW-- TODAY, WHEN I WALK ON THE STREET AND PEOPLE LOOK AT YOU IN A DIFFERENT-- I WANT PEOPLE SEE THIS IS ENTREPRENEUR, THIS IS THE GUY WHO IS HAVING FUN OF HIMSELF. AND I WANNA BE MYSELF. BUT TODAY PEOPLE PROBABLY HAVE BIG DEMAINDING ON YOU OR MANY OTHER THINGS.
DAVID FABER: SO IF THE MONEY IS A PAIN, IS THERE SOMETHING YOU CAN DO TO PUT IT ASIDE, TO GET RID OF IT, TO--
JACK MA: YEAH, SO I WANT TO FOCUS ON THAT…-- NEXT YEAR WHEN I HAVE TIME, YOU KNOW, I'M SETTING-- THINKING-- SET A GOOD PLAN HOW WE CAN CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE SOCIETY SPENDING MONEY AS I TOLD BILL GATES. SPENDING MONEY IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THAN-- THAN MAKING MONEY, RIGHT, SO WE-- 'CAUSE WE ARE LEARNING HOW TO DO THIS PHILANTHROPY CHARITY THINGS AND HOW CAN DO THE ENVIRONMENT, WATER PROTECTION-- WE'RE LEARNING.
DAVID FABER: DO YOU SEE YOURSELF SETTING UP A SIGNIFICANT FOUNDATION OR BECOMING A PHILANTHROPIST ALONG THE LINES OF BILL GATES?
JACK MA: WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING-- I-- I WOULD LOVE TO 'CAUSE-- YOU MADE A LOT OF MONEY, YOU GOTTA SPEND IT. AND YOU CAN NOT SPEND, BUY TEN BAGS AND 11 HOUSES. YOU WANT TO SPEND MONEY IN-- IN A EFFECTIVE WAY. YOU WANNA SPEND MONEY IN A BUSINESS WAY THAT CAN-- REALLY CAN HELP PEOPLE.
SO I THINK-- AS I SAID WHEN YOU HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY, IT'S THE TRUST PEOPLE GIVING YOU. SO HOW YOU CAN SPEND THE MONEY MORE EFFICIENTLY THAN GOVERNMENT THAN OTHER GUYS. THIS IS A BIG CHALLENGE. SO THE COMPETITION BETWEEN ME AND BILL GATES PROBABLY, WHO CAN SPEND MONEY MORE EFFECTIVE WAY THAT CAN DO BETTER PHILANTHROPY.
DAVID FABER: THAT'S A NICE WAY TO THINK ABOUT THINGS. NOT EVERYBODY OF COURSE SHARES THAT VIEW. I WANNA GET TO SOME TWITTER QUESTIONS WE HAVE. BUT I DID WANNA ASK-- AND YOU MENTIONED YAHOO WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE UPS AND DOWNS-- FUNNY, TALKING ABOUT MONEY, THEY HAVE PLENTY OF IT THANKS TO THE ENORMOUS MOVE UP IN ALIBABA.
JACK MA: I AM HONORED TO HELP THE SHAREHOLDERS.
DAVID FABER: THE STOCK THAT THEY HAD SOLD. AND OF COURSE THEY STILL OWN 16% OF YOUR COMPANY. HOW IS THAT RELATIONSHIP? SOME SAY IT WAS-- NOT DOING WELL-- BUT THEN MARISSA MAYER HAS HELPED TO PUT IT ON A BETTER TRACK. IS THAT TRUE?
JACK MA: WELL, THEY ARE GOOD SHAREHOLDERS NOW AND WE-- AND WE WORK ON PEACEFULLY. I'M SO BUSY HERE, THEY'RE SO BUSY THERE. AS I'VE SAID WHEN I SEE MY MOTHER BUSY IN THE KITCHEN, I NEVER GET, YOU KNOW GOOD STAY AWAY. AND THEY ARE BUSY CHANGING YAHOO. AND-- I WATCHED VERY CAREFULLY AND ALSO WORKING ON MY OWN THING.
DAVID FABER: YOU'RE WORKING ON YOUR OWN THING?
JACK MA: YEAH.
DAVID FABER: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
JACK MA: WELL, I DON'T THINK TODAY THAT LOT OF-- YAHOO-- PEOPLE IN THE COMPANY, THEY KNOW CHINA ECOMMERCE, THEY KNOW CHINA INTERNET BETTER. SO WHAT WE HAVE TO FOCUS IN OUR SELF, WE HAVE TO MAKING SURE THAT THE SHAREHOLDER-- I THINK THE SHAREHOLDER BE HAPPY 'CAUSE THE RESULT IS HAPPY.
DAVID FABER: CERTAINLY HAS BEEN.
JACK MA: RIGHT? I DON'T THINK THEY WANT A JACK MA FOLLOW THEIR STRATEGY, THEY WANT A JACK MA MAKE MONEY.
DAVID FABER: THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT. AND THEN THEY WANNA BE ABLE TO EXIT EVENTUALLY, I GUESS.
JACK MA: AND THEY WILL. I THINK THEY'RE HAPPY.
DAVID FABER: YEAH.
JACK MA: YOU THINK THEY'RE HAPPY?
DAVID FABER: I THINK THEY'VE GOTTA BE VERY HAPPY. I THINK THEY-- YOU THINK MASASON IS HAPPY TOO? HE NEVER WANTS TO EXIT.
JACK MA: YEAH. I THINK THAT HE'S HAPPY. I THINK HE'S HAPPY. AND I-- I THINK, YOU KNOW, HE-- HE'S BEEN THERE FOR SO MANY YEARS. AND-- HE WANTS TO STAY. IF HE WANTS TO STAY, LET HIM STAY.
DAVID FABER: YOU'RE GONNA LET HIM STAY--YOU DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE HIM-- YOU DON'T WANNA ENCOURAGE HIM TO-- TO SELL ANY SOFTBANK?
JACK MA: I WOULD BE HAPPY IF HE SELL, AND I-- I'M ALSO HAPPY IF HE STAYED, THAT'S HIS CHOICE. THAT'S HIS FREEDOM, RIGHT?
DAVID FABER: RIGHT. ALL RIGHT, LET ME GET TO A COUPLE OF THESE TWITTER-- QUESTIONS. AND THEN WE'LL-- WE'LL LET YOU GO. JACKIE TWEETS HERE-- I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BY THE WAY, HAD VIEWERS ACTUALLY TAKE OVER MY INTERVIEW. SO BEAR WITH ME. JACKIE TWEETS, "ARE YOU HAPPY?" I DID THIS PICK THESE. "AND IF SO, WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY?"
JACK MA: THIS MONTH I'M NOT HAPPY.
DAVID FABER: SAY IT AGAIN.
JACK MA: THIS MONTH I'M NOT VERY HAPPY.
DAVID FABER: YOU'RE NOT HAPPY, WHY NOT?
JACK MA: I THINK TOO MUCH PRESSURE. AT THE PRESSURE FROM VARIOUS--I THINK-- I TRIED TO MAKE MYSELF HAPPY NOW 'CAUSE I KNOW IF I'M NOT HAPPY, MY COLLEAGUES ARE NOT HAPPY. ANDMY SHAREHOLDER NOT BE HAPPY AND MY EMPLOYEES-- I THINK MY CUSTOMER NOT HAPPY. SO JUST BECAUSE MAYBE, YOU KNOW-- I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THE STOCKS GOES SO UP, MAYBE PEOPLE HAVE A HIGH EXPECTATIONS ON YOU, MAYBE I'D THINK TOO MUCH ABOUT THE FUTURE AND HAVE TOO MANY THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT.
DAVID FABER: SO THE IPO'S MADE YOU UNHAPPY? THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY.
JACK MA: WELL, NOT HAPPY AS PEOPLE EXPECTED. IPO'S GREAT 'CAUSE I'M HAPPY TO-- THE WONDERFUL JOB THE TEAM MADE. I'M HAPPY THAT-- OF THE RESULTS. BUT HONESTLY I THINK WHEN PEOPLE THINK TOO HIGHLY OF YOU, YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT-- TO CALM DOWN, TO CALM DOWN, BE YOURSELF. 'CAUSE IF I DO NOT CALM DOWN, EVERYBODY, LIKE, JUMPING LIKE MONKEYS. THAT'S NO GOOD.
DAVID FABER: SO WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO TO MAKE YOURSELF HAPPY THEN, JACK?
JACK MA: I DON'T KNOW. I NEED TO HAVE-- FIVE OR TEN DAYS SLEEP.
DAVID FABER: THAT ALWAYS HELPS. THAT ALWAYS HELPS. WE'RE ALL LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT. AND FINALLY, WE HAVE ANOTHER TWEET, AMU (I HOPE I'M PRONOUNCING THIS PROPERLY), "WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED IN BUSINESS?"
JACK MA: ALWAYS TRUST YOUR PEOPLE AND SPEND MONEY, TIME RESOURCES ON YOUR PEOPLE. AND THE BEST WAY TO MAKE YOUR PEOPLE GOOD IS THE CULTURE AND MAKING SURE THAT I ALWAYS BE A TEACHER. A TEACHER'S RESPONSIBILITY AND—THE FUN PART THE GREAT-- THE GREAT VALUE OF TEACHER IS ALWAYS EXPECT STUDENTS ARE BETTER THAN YOU ARE. AND I THINK THE LESSON THAT I LEARN EVERY TIME-- IF I SPEND MORE TIME WITH MY TEAM, BUSINESS GOOD, EVERYTHING'S GOOD. IF I SPEND MORE TIME THINKING ABOUT MAKING MONEY AND START THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OTHER CRAZY THINGS, THE TEAM NOT HAPPY RESULT IS BAD.
DAVID FABER: SO IT'S ABOUT KEEPING EVERYBODY HAPPY WHO WORKS FOR YOU?
JACK MA: YOU CANNOT KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY--
DAVID FABER: NO, YOU CAN'T.
JACK MA: --YOU KEEP-- YOU TRY TO KEEP THE PEOPLE YOU TRUST, AND THEY TRUST IN YOU, HAPPY. 'CAUSE I CANNOT MAKE EVERY SHAREHOLDER HAPPY. THE SHAREHOLDER HAS TO UNDERSTAND THIS COMPANY HAVE A STRANGE UNIQUE PHILOSOPHY. WE ARE BUILDING ON A BUSINESS MODEL THAT'S A ECOSYSTEM. NOBODY EVER HEARD OF THAT. WE'RE FOCUSING ON HELPING CUSTOMERS, SMALL BUSINESS. WE'RE FOCUSING ON MAKING SURE THAT EMPLOYEE HAPPIES AND THEN THE SHAREHOLDER.
DAVID FABER: AND SO--IF I HAVE TO ASK YOU TO DESCRIBE THE CULTURE OF ALIBABA, WHAT IS IT? IS IT THAT?
JACK MA: TRUST AND TRANSPARENT. 'CAUSE WE ARE WORKING WITH-- MY COMPANY AND THE TEAM HAVE-- WE HAVE 30 THOUSAND SMART PEOPLE. IF YOU WORK WITH THE SMART PEOPLE, YOU GOTTA BE TRANSPARENT. YOU GOTTA MAKING SURE THEY TRUST YOU AND YOU TRUST THEM AND MAKING SURE THAT EVERYBODY HAVE THE SAME VISION-- AND VISION AND VALUE. AND THESE ARE THE CORE. 'CAUSE THEY'RE SO SMART. IT SI SOMETIMES GREAT TO WORK WITH THE STUPID GUYS, WHATEVER YOU SAY, THEY'LL FOLLOW IT. BUT IT'S A GOOD PAIN IF THEY-- IF YOU ARE SMART THAN THEM—IT IS A DISASTER
DAVID FABER: RIGHT. AND ON THAT ISSUE OF TRUST, WHICH YOU'VE SAID TO ME BEFORE, WHEN WE SPOKE ON SEPTEMBER 19TH, AND I'D ASKED YOU WHAT PEOPLE SAY, THEY TALK ABOUT THE VARIABLES INTEREST ENTITIES FOR EXAMPLE-- AND THEY WONDER, "WELL, COULD THINGS CHANGE AT THIS COMPANY? CAN I TRUST JACK MA?"
JACK MA: WELL, I TRUST MY PEOPLE AND I TRUST IN THE YOUNG GENERATION. AND I THINK THAT IT'S NOT JACK MA CHANGE THE COMPANY. IT'S THIS YOUNG GENERATION IS CHANGING THE COMPANY. IT'S THE NEW TECHNOLOGY CHANGING THE COMPANY. IF YOU SAY WHETHER YOU TRUST IN ME, JUST LIKE WHETHER YOU TRUST THE YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUNG GENERATION, WHICH IS-- WHICH I BELIEVE. AND I TRUST MY COLLEAGUES. I TRUST JOE TSAI, I TRUST TEAM, I TRUST TIGER, I TRUST JONATHAN LU, LUCY PENG MORE THAN I TRUST MYSELF, BECAUSE I ONLY RELY ON THESE GUYS BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUNGER THAN I AM. SO IT'S ALWAYS LIKE THAT. IT'S-- YOU ONLY TRUST ME? I DON'T CARE YOU TRUST ME OR DON'T TRUST ME. BUT I CARE MY TEAM TRUST ME AND MY-- CUSTOMERS TRUST US. THAT'S-- IF YOU CAN DO THAT, WHETHER SHAREHOLDER TRUST ME OR NOT, NOT IMPORTANT. THEY KNOW THEY TRUST THE GOOD RESULTS.
DAVID FABER: JACK MA, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU FOR HAVING US HERE AT YOUR HEADQUARTERS, APPRECIATE IT.
JACK MA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
DAVID FABER: JACK MA, THE EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, FOUNDER OF ALIBABA. GUYS, WE'LL SEND IT BACK TO YOU.
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