WHEN: TODAY, THURSDAY, April 28, 2016
WHERE: CNBC'S "POWER LUNCH"
Following is the unofficial transcript of a CNBC EXCLUSIVE interview with Carl Icahn, Chairman of Icahn Enterprises, today on CNBC's "Power Lunch." Following are links to video of the interview on CNBC.com: http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000512158&play=1, http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000512153&play=1, http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000513534&play=1 and http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000513537&play=1.
All references must be sourced to CNBC.
SCOTT WAPNER: AND I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO TALK A LOT MORE ABOUT THAT. IN FACT, I KNOW WE HAVE CARL ICAHN NOW WITH US ON THE PHONE. CARL, YOU'RE.THERE WELCOME TO "POWER LUNCH." THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
CARL ICAHN: OKAY. GOOD TO TALK YOU TO.
WAPNER: YOU AS WELL. AS IT ALWAYS IS WE'LL GET BACK TO THE HOLOGIC STORY IN JUST A MOMENT. BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU IF I COULD ABOUT WHAT HAS BEEN UNDOUBTEDLY THE BIGGEST MARKET STORY THIS WEEK AND THAT IS THE AFTERMATH OF APPLE'S EARNINGS, THE IMPACT OF THE EARNINGS ON THE STOCK, THE WAY IT SOLD OFF SO DRAMATICALLY, CARL. YOU SAID IN A FILING IN FEBRUARY THAT YOU HAD CUT YOUR POSITION IN APPLE. YOU HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING SINCE. I ALONG WITH SO MANY OTHERS IN THE MARKET HAVE BEEN WONDERING WHAT THE STATUS OF YOUR POSITION IS, FRANKLY IF, YOU'RE EVEN STILL IN APPLE. CAN YOU TELL US TODAY WHAT YOUR POSITION IN APPLE IS, IF YOU EVEN STILL HAVE ONE?
ICAHN: YEAH. I FIGURED SCOTT YOU'D START BY ASKING ME THAT. AND WE NO LONGER HAVE A POSITION IN APPLE TO START, I THINK TIM COOK DID A GREAT JOB. I HAVE A GREAT RELATION WITH HIM. I CALLED HIM THIS MORNING TO TELL HIM THAT AND HE WAS A LITTLE SORRY, OBVIOUSLY. BUT I TOLD HIM I THINK IT'S A GREAT COMPANY. AND, AGAIN, JUST YOU FIND IN THIS WORLD AND ECONOMY, GREAT CEOs, STEVE McMILLAN ON THIS CALL DID A GREAT JOB FOR US. TIM DID A GREAT JOB. THE ISSUE WITH APPLE IS WE WERE IN IT FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS. I MEAN WE'RE NOT SHORT TERM ORIENTED AND WE WERE IT IN AND WE LIKED IT A GREAT DEAL. I PUT OUT THIS TWEET MAYBE 2 1/2 YEARS AGO. IF YOU BOUGHT THE STOCK THEN, FIGURE YOU MADE 48% OR 50% TOTAL RETURN IN THOSE 2 1/2 YEARS. WE OBVIOUSLY MADE A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY. BUT IT WAS SORT OF NO SURPRISE THAT WE GOT OUT OF SOME OUTSIDE OF FEBRUARY. WE HAVE TO PUT THE 13 AT LEAST IN THIS CASE WE DO. AND WE WILL BE PUTTING OUT A 13F THAT WE ARE OUT OF THE STOCK. INTERESTINGLY IT'S NOT LIKE WE SOLD IT HIGHER THAN THE PUBLIC HAS A CHANCE TO SELL IT. I MEAN WE SOLD IT MAYBE GOVE OR TAKE A POINT OR TWO RIGHT HERE WHAT THE MARKET IS TODAY.
WAPNER: INTERESTING. I SHOULD SAY AS WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION I MEAN THE STOCK IS OVIOUSLY REACTING TO THE NEWS I THINK YOU MENTIONED TIM COOK. NOT SURE WHAT HE MAY BE THINKING AT THIS VERY MOMENT. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY BE WONDERING HOW A STOCK LIKE THIS GOES FROM A "NO-BRAINER" AT ONE POINT WITH A PRICE TARGET THAT YOU SAW AS REALISTIC OF $240 OR SO TO BEING COMPLETELY OUT OF IT IN WHAT I THINK IS FAIR TO SAY A RELATIVELY SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME THAN MAYBE PEOPLE EXPECTED. HOW DO YOU GET FROM THAT POINT? HOW DOES IT GO FROM NO-BRAINER TO NOW?
ICAHN: I WILL TELL YOU THIS. WHAT I LIKE TO BUY AND HAVE DONE THAT PRETTY SUCCESSFULLY IS ONE, BUY WHAT I CALL NO BRAIN WE ARE A RISK REWARD IS GREATLY IN YOUR FAVOR. WHERE YOU ALMOST -- I KNOW THIS IS ANTI-INTUITIVE AND IT'S VERY HARD TO FOLLOW IS, BUT ALMOST HOPE WHEN YOU BUY A STOCK IT'S GOING TO GO LOWER. IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT SHORT TERM, SHORTERMISM WHICH WE DON'T, WE KEPT OUR STOCKS. IF YOU LOOK AT OUR WHOLE PORTFOLIO OVER THE YEARS, 7 ½ YEAR AVERAGE WHICH IS HUGE, WE DON'T LOOK AT THE SHORT TERM ORIENTATION THAT EVERYBODY SORT OF SAYS THE ACTIVIST DOES. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE HEDGE FUND RELATED TO ACTIVISM IS THAT IT SORT OF FORCES A SHORT TERM ORIENTATION BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO WORRY THAT MONEY WILL BE PULLED OUT. WE DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT. SO WE LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE. IN APPLE TODAY AS OPPOSED TO MAYBE EVEN SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR AGO, IN THIS ONE, THERE IS NO NEED FOR ACTIVISM ASSUMING YOU CAN EVEN DO IT BECAUSE I THINK THEY HAVE A GREAT MANAGEMENT TEAM. IN THIS ONE, YOU WORRY A LITTLE BIT AND MAYBE MORE THAN A LITTLE ABOUT TRYING ATTITUDE IN WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SEEING. BUT APPLE DOES HAVE A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA AND THEY GIVE CHINA A GREAT MANY JOBS. THEY ASSEMBLE IN CHINA. SO YOU WOULD HOPE THERE WON'T BE A PROBLEM. BUT THEY DO MAKE A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY FROM CHINA. SO IT'S NOT THE NO BRAINERBUT THE KIND OF THING INSTINCTIVELY YOU LOVE WHETHER YOU SEE AN INVESTMENT.
WAPNER: SO YOU'RE SAYING, THOUGH, THAT YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ONE IN CHINA WITH THE ECONOMY AND THE IMPACT IT COULD HAVE ON APPLE. I SHOULD SAY I THINK YOU MADE $2 MILLION IN THE STOCK SO IT HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE INVESTMENT. AS WE ALL HAVE WONDERED THIS WEEK WHETHER APPLE'S BEST DAYS ARE BEHIND IT. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE THINKING AS WELL AND WONDERING TODAY AS YOU GET OUT OF THE STOCK?
ICAHN: NO NO, I'M NOT, SCOTT. I THINK APPLE HAS, WHICH WE SAID ALL ALONG, WHICH IS GREAT, GREAT BARRIERS TO ENTRANCE. YOU CAN'T GO INTO THAT BUSINESS UNLESS YOU'RE LIKE SAMSUNG WHICH IS REALLY LIKE A COUNTRY BACKING IT. A LOT OF PEOPLE TRIED, A LOT OF PEOPLE FAILED. YOU CANNOT GET INTO THAT BUSINESS UNLESS IN CHINA, FOR INSTANCE, THEY WILL COME IN AND MAKE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR APPLE TO SELL THERE. THEY COULD THEORETICALLY, YOU KNOW. THEY'RE BASICALLY IN SOME SENSES I WOULD SAY, PERHAPS BENEVOLENT BUT A BENEVOLENT DICTATORSHIP. I DON'T KNOW IF BENEVOLENT IS THE RIGHT WORD. SO YOU CAN DO PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU WANT THERE. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, AND I BELIEVE CHINA IS A GREAT TURN AROUND STORY IN ITSELF, BUT THAT IS THE RISK THAT –SO YOU COULD YOU LOOK AHEAD AND YOU MIGHT FIND THREE, FOUR, FIVE MONTHS CHINA AND APPLE, ARE GREAT TOGETHER AND THEN IT BECOMES A NO-BRAINER AGAIN. BECAUSE I AM NOT WORRIED ABOUT BARRIERS TO ENTRANCE. I THINK THEY'RE A GREAT COMPANY. ONE OF THE GREATEST OUR ECONOMY HAS SEEN.
TYLER MATHISEN: FORGIVE ME FOR INTERRUPTING, CARL. TYLER MATHISEN HERE. SO IS CHINA AND YOUR WORRIES ABOUT THE LONGEVITY OF ITS SUCCESS THERE AND MAYBE GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE OR IS THAT THE MAIN REASON YOU'RE -- YOU SOLD OR ARE THERE OTHERS? WHY DID YOU SELL?
ICAHN: THAT IS THE MAIN REASON THAT YEH I GOT OUT. BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL WHEN YOU MAKE THE KIND OF RETURN WE MADE, YOU LOOK AT IT AND, OBVIOUSLY, WHEN THE STOCK IS THIS MUCH HIGHER THAT WHEN I SAID IT WAS A NO-BRAINER, THAT MEANS IT'S A NO BRAIN ARE BY DEFINITION, RIGHT? THE COMPANY IS NOT SELLING -- YOU KNOW IT'S GONE UP A GREAT DEAL. OBVIOUSLY THAT GOES AGAINST IT. BUT THE REAL THING I WORRY ABOUT, TYLER, IS THE RELATIONSHIP. AND I REALLY DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THAT RELATIONSHIP SO IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME. THAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR ME. I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO SPEAK MORE TO TIM ABOUT HIS VIEWS OF THAT. AND I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY -- I'M NOT GOING TO SPEAK FOR HIM EXCEPT TO SAY I DON'T THINK HE'S QUITE THAT CONCERNED ABOUT IT. BUT BEING THAT SAID, THE ONE HAND WE HAVE THIS HUGE PROFIT SO BY DEFINITION, IT'S NOT THE NO-BRAINER IT WAS. BUT, TWO, IF CHINA WAS BASICALLY STEADIED, I WOULD PROBABLY GO BACK INTO IT. I MEAN IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I FEEL IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE BASIC COMPANY OR ITS MANAGEMENT.
BRIAN SULLIVAN: MR. ICAHN, IT'S BRIAN SULLIVAN. THANKS FOR JOINING US. AND AGAIN I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT POINT EXACTLY BECAUSE I KNOW YOU BOUGHT -- I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY YOUR ENTRY POINT ORIGINALLY, BUT I DO KNOW AROUND MAY OF 2014 YOU HAD SAID THAT YOU HAD BOUGHT SOME MORE. AND THAT WAS ABOUT $75 OR $76 BUCKS PER SHARE. WE'RE DOWN HERE IN THE MID-NINETIES. BY THE WAY, THE STOCK IS FALLING ON YOUR COMMENTS. WHAT PRICE POINT WOULD BE ATTRACTIVE TO YOU TO RE-ENTER APPLE?
ICAHN: I DON'T THINK IT'S A PRICE POINT. I THINK IT'S MY OPINION ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH CHINA. IT'S NOT THE PRICE POINT. I THINK THE STOCK IS VERY CHEAP STILL ON A MULTIPLE BASIS. IN FACT, ONE OF THE CHEAPEST. I ALSO THINK THAT EVENTUALLY THAT -- THEY HAVE $2.6 TRILLION ABROAD SO ON A FUNDAMENTAL BASIS, YOU KNOW, WITHIN 10, 15 POINTS IT'S CHEAP IN MY OPINION THAT WAY. THE OTHER WAY IS CHINA, OBVIOUSLY, COULD BE A SHADOW FOR IT. AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT. I'M NOT THE GREAT EXPERT ON CHINA. I DON'T PRETEND TO BE. AND THAT BOTHERS ME. I LIKE TO GO INTO A COMPANY THAT I SAY TO MYSELF INSTINCTIVE, THIS IS GREAT. AS I SAID BEFORE, ANTI-INTUITIVELY, YOU DON'T MIND BUYING MORE. YOU'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT IT. AND YOU SORT OF FEEL THAT YOU HAVE A PRETTY GOOD GRASP OF THE FUNDAMENTALS. YOU COULD BE WRONG. LOOK, SECULAR CHANGES COME. WE GOT BADLY HURT, I MEAN NOT FOR US, I MEAN WE HAVE SO MANY – WE REALLY HAVE SO MUCH CAPITAL RELATED IN THE INVESTMENT WORLD, RELATED TO A LOT OF THE OTHER FUNDS. BUT FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW, WE CERTAINLY HAD A BAD YEAR BECAUSE OF ENERGY, I MEAN A BAD YEAR FOR US. AND THAT – SO THAT IS A SECULAR CHANGE. THAT YOU CAN'T FORESEE. YOU LOOK AT THE OIL AND THE ENERGY COMPANIES AND I MEAN NOBODY WOULD HAVE FORESEEN, I DON'T THINK, MAYBE SOME DID BUT WE DIDN'T THAT, YOU KNOW, SAUDI ARABIA WOULD BE THROWING ALL THAT OIL OUT. WE SAW IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUY. AND SO THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I'M SAYING. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT AN INVESTMENT PHILOSOPHY AND YOU'RE AN ACTIVIST, YOU SAY, HEY LOOK, I'M GOING TO GO IN AND I CAN MAKE CHANGES HERE. THIS IS A GREAT COMPANY. IT'S A NO-BRAINER. I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO BRING CHENIERE HERE. THAT'S ONE, THAT'S A NO-BRAINER. YOU HAVE TO MAKE CHANGES IN MANAGEMENT. BUT THAT WAS WHAT WE DO. NOW IF APPLE, IT'S UNLIKE THE ENERGY THING, IT'S NOT A TSUNAMI THAT HIT IT. BUT I WORRY A LITTLE BIT COULD A TSUNAMI HIT IT? AND THAT'S ONE THAT I'M SORT OF AWARE OF MORE THAN I WAS ON THE OIL -- LOOK, YOU CAN'T BE PERFECT IN THESE THINGS, OBVIOUSLY.
WAPNER: I THINK IF MY MATH IS RIGHT, CARL, YOUR COST BASIS IS SOMEWHERE AROUND $68. AS I SAID, YOU MADE $2 BILLION OFF OF THIS INVESTMENT TRADE, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
ICAHN: YEAH, I THINK CAN YOU BACK INTO IT AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY CORRECT WITHIN A FEW BUCKS.
WAPNER: DO YOU THINK THAT APPLE IS STILL AN INNOVATIVE COMPANY?
ICAHN: I THINK IT'S A GREAT COMPANY. I THINK TIM IS DOING A GREAT JOB. LOOK, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT IF I DIDN'T MEAN IT. VERY FEW CEOS I'LL SAY THAT ABOUT. I THINK THIS COMPANY HAS TREMENDOUS FUTURE. I MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE UPS AND DOWNS, SURE. THE'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH SOME INNOVATION. BUT I DON'T AGREE WITH SOME OF THE NAYSAYERS, WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE PROBLEMS HERE AND THERE. YOU CAN'T BREAK INTO THE iPHONE ECOSYSTEM AND I THINK THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO INTO MANY THINGS AND I THINK THEY WILL. AND I THINK THEY'LL BE SUCCESSFUL. SO DON'T TAKE IT -- LOOK, I WOULD TELL YOU THAT IF I THOUGHT OH, SOMETHING IS WRONG. I GOT OUT FOR THE PURPOSE OF -- BECAUSE I'M WORRIED ABOUT CHINA AND I HAVE THIS HUGE PROFIT. BEING THAT SAID, I HOPE ONE DAY TO GET BACK INTO IT.
WAPNER: DOES THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE BEEN NEGATIVE ON CHINA AND YOU'RE NOW OUT OF THIS, ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE U.S. STOCK MARKET TODAY? YOU HAVE BEEN NEGATIVE ON THE MARKET AND I WONDER –
ICAHN: IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THE THING THAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT HERE IN CHINA DOESN'T AFFECT THE WHOLE MARKET. I MEAN, YOU COULD WORRY ABOUT CHINA IN GENERAL. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT CHINA'S ECONOMIC STATUS RIGHT NOW. I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO – I MEAN, COULD THIS THING WITH APPLE ESCALATE A LITTLE BIT? AND IF IT DOES, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO APPLE'S PROFITS FOR THE NEAR TERM? I'M NOT HERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU COULD TALK ABOUT AND THERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION. BUT IT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OF SOMEWHAT. YOU KNOW, CHINA'S ECONOMY ITSELF, YOU KNOW? I THINK THEY'RE -- I'M NO EXPERT ON IT. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FACTS THAT YOU SEE. THAT CHINA IS SORT OF LOOKING AT APPLE AND SAYING, WELL, CAN YOU DO THIS? SHOULD WE LET DO YOU THAT? SHOULD WE LET YOU DO THIS? AND IT MAY REALLY BLOW OVER. LOOK, I MEAN, IT'S BLOWN OVER CERTAINLY IN OTHER AREAS AND IT CERTAINLY COULD BLOW OVER HERE.
WAPNER: BUT YOU'VE BEEN WORRIED AND NEGATIVE AND YOU'VE BEEN OUTSPOKEN ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE U.S. STOCK MARKET. WORRYING ABOUT THE MARKET.
ICAHN: THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION.
WAPNER: ARE YOU STILL -- WE CAN ANSWER THAT, THOUGH WHEN IT PERTAINS TO THE MARKET. ARE YOU STILL WORRIED ABOUT THE U.S. STOCK MARKET?
ICAHN: I STILL AM VERY CAUTIOUS, YES. I'M EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS ABOUT THE MARKET. THAT IS NOT SO MUCH RELATED TO CHINA AS RELATED TO THE EXPERIMENT THAT WE'RE DOING AND I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT BELIEVES THIS. THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE A FEDERAL RESERVE GIVE LOW INTEREST – NO, NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES WITHOUT CREATING TREMENDOUS BUBBLES AND CREATING THE WEALTH GAP. AND IT'S DOING A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE UNFORESEEN, HAS UNFORESEEN POSSIBILITIES. YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T KEEP ME FROM INVESTING AND WE HAVE A LOT OF LONG POSITIONS, BUT THEN WE HAVE A HUGE SHORT POSITION ON. AND THE SHORT POSITION OBVIOUSLY IS NOT WORKING THAT WELL AS THE MARKET GOES UP. BUT I HAVE NOT CHANGED MY OPINION THAT -- I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ALL THESE COMMODITIES STOCKS ARE NOT A BIT TOO LOW. I THINK THEY OVERDID THE COMMODITY STOCKS. I THINK THERE YOU HAVE A DEFINITE OPPORTUNITY STILL PERHAPS. BUT I DO BELIEVE IN GENERAL THAT THERE WILL BE A DAY OF RECKONNING UNLESS WE GET FISCAL STIMULUS AS WELL AS --
SULLIVAN: MR. ICAHN, IT'S BRIAN AGAIN. CAN I GO BACK TO THE COMMODITY STORY? DO YOU STILL OWN EITHER CHESAPEAKE ENERGY, CVR ENERGY OR FREEPORT-MCMORAN?
ICAHN: I STILL DO. I HAVEN'T SOLD. OBVIOUSLY, HEY, COULD I HAVE BOUGHT THEM CHEAPER? SURE. BUT I THINK AT THIS POINT THAT I HAVEN'T SOLD ANY OF THEM. I THINK THAT IT DOESN'T MEAN I WOULDN'T SELL THEM IF THEY WENT UP OR CHANGED MY MIND. BUT I THINK THERE THAT THEY JUST WERE WAY OVERDONE ON THE DOWNSIDE AND --
SULLIVAN: DID YOU ADD AT ALL, AS THE PRICE FELL, DID YOU ADD TO YOUR POSITIONS?
ICAHN: I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO, YOU KNOW, A DAILY TRADING OR WEEKLY TRADING. I'M TALKING ABOUT APPLE BECAUSE IT'S COMING OUT ANYWAY IN A FEW, YOU KNOW, IN A WEEK. AND I WOULD PROBABLY COME OUT AND SAY IT ANYWAY BUT AS FAR AS ALL THESE COMPANIES, I PERSONALLY AT THIS POINT THINK THAT, AGAIN, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF CHINA IN FREEPORT BECAUSE OF THE COPPER BUT THERE I DO THINK THAT THERE IS NEED FOR COPPER FOR THE GRID THERE. AND SO I THINK THAT THESE COMMODITIES, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT A HUGE SHORT POSITION IN ALL THESE COMPANIES. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TRADERS LOVE TO GO WITH THE TREND. YOU KNOW, AN OLD FRIEND OF MINE USED TO SAY IT WAS VERY WISE. THE TREND IS YOUR FRIEND UNTIL THE END. SO YOU KNOW, WHEN THE COMMODITIES GOT KILLED AND KILLED AND KILLED, THEY KEPT SHORTING AND SHORTING AND SHORTING AND I THINK THAT'S ONE THINGS THAT GOING TO KEEP PUSHING THEM OFF.
MATHISEN: LET ME GO BACK TO YOUR QUESTION. YOU SAY YOU'D LIKE TO SEE MORE -- YOU'D LIKE TO SEE SOME FISCAL STIMULUS AS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD HELP OR TURN YOUR VIEW OF THE U.S. MARKET IN A MORE POSITIVE DIRECTION. WHAT'S THE COMBINATION THERE? IS IT MORE TAX CUTS OR MORE SPENDING OR A LITTLE OF BOTH?
ICAHN: WELL, I THINK YOU CERTAINLY COULD DO MORE SPENDING. AND REPUBLICAN PARTY, I USED TO BE, SHALL I SAY, MORE SYMPATHETIC WITH. I'M RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE NOW, ALTHOUGH, AS YOU KNOW, I'M FOR DONALD TRUMP. BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS CONGRESS IS IN THIS MASSIVE GRIDLOCK, OBSESSED WITH THIS DEFICIT TO A POINT THAT I THINK IT'S ALMOST PATHOLOGICAL. THAT YOU JUST WORRY ABOUT A DEFICIT WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE INFLATION AND YOU ARE THE RESERVE CURRENCY OF THE WORLD. AND, I MEAN, SOME OF THESE POLITICIANS YOU TALK TO HAVE NO -- I MEAN, A LOT OF THEM ARE BRIGHT GUYS. BUT THEY HAVE REALLY NO CONCEPT OF WHAT IT MEANS. YOU KNOW, A COUNTRY IS NOT A COMPANY. YOU KNOW, A COMPANY, IF YOU BORROW TO MUCH MONEY, YOU GO BANKRUPT. SOMEBODY TAKES YOU OVER. WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY KEEP SAYING WE OWE ALL THIS MONEY TO CHINA. BUT WE'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO PAY IT BACK EVER IN THE NORMAL WAY, YOU KNOW. SO TRYING TO DECIDE IF I WANT MY MONEY BACK. WELL, OK, HOW DO YOU WANT IT BACK? YOU WANT DOLLAR BILLS? YOU WANT TREASURIES? WHAT DO YOU WANT? SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS OBSESSION THAT THEY HAVE. NOW BEING THAT SAID, I'M NOT SAYING YOU GOT TO GO CRAZY AND BORROW MONEY AND HAVE MONEY FLOATING AROUND AND HAVE RAPID INFLATION. AND, YEAH, THE FED IS THERE. AND EVERYTHING IS EQUILIBRIUM. EVERYTHING HAS A MIDDLE GROUND. AND WE ARE SO OBSESSED WITH THAT DEFICIT THAT, YOU KNOW, AND I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD AGREE COMPLETELY WITH GUYS LIKE KRUGMAN. BUT IN THIS SENSE, HE'S SORT OF RIGHT. I MEAN, YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED FISCAL STIMULUS IN THIS ECONOMY BECAUSE THIS ECONOMY, I DON'T THINK, OUR COMPANIES ARE NOT DOING WELL AT ALL.
WAPNER: I HOPE THOSE COMMENTS DON'T GET BACK TO MR. TRUMP, CARL. IS PAUL KRUGMAN ON ANY OF HIS DINNER PARTY LISTS? I DON'T KNOW.
ICAHN: I WILL TELL YOU THIS, I THINK DONALD CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, I READ IT ALL THE TIME AND THE ESTABLISHMENT DOESN'T LIKE DONALD, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THE RIGHT-WING ESTABLISHMENT. I THINK DONALD'S A PRAGMATIST. I THINK HE'S GOING TO DO FOR THIS ECONOMY WHAT SHOULD BE DONE. I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR HIM AT ALL. BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO DO FISCAL STIMULUS. BUT CAN YOU DO A LOT OF OTHER THINGS FOR THIS ECONOMY. AND ONE OF THEM WOULD BE TO MAKE OUR COMPANIES MORE ACCOUNTABLE. MAKE OUR CEOs MORE ACCOUNTABLE. YOU KNOW, WHAT IS INTERESTING IS I SAID IT BEFORE, YOU KNOW, YOU GO IN AND THIS IS REALLY A GOOD CRITICISM OF WHAT IS GOING ON. YOU'VE LOWERED INTEREST RATES. BUT YET, YOU'RE JANET YELLEN AND SHE IS TRYING TO DO HER JOB AND THE FED IS TRYING TO HOLD THIS WHOLE THING UP. AND SHE GOES, WELL YOU KNOW WHAT? WE'RE DOING THIS. WE'RE DOING THIS. AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THEM AND SAY BUT YOU KNOW, PRODUCTIVITY FOR WORKERS IS NOT GOING UP. AND TRUE -- YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE GUYS, AND YOU'D BE SURPRISED I'M SAYING THIS BEING AN ACTIVIST, BUT I AS AN ACTIVIST AM NOT FOR BUYBACKS EXCEPT THAT A COMPANY LIKE APPLE THAT HAS SO MUCH CASH AROUND. YOU HAVE COMPANIES TODAY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF LOW INTEREST RATES BY GOING AND BORROWING MONEY AND BUYING THEIR STOCK BACK. AND YOU KNOW, COINCIDENTALLY, IF YOU NOTICED, THOSE BUYBACKS ARE COMING AT THE TIME THAT THE CEO'S OPTIONS ARE VESTING SO THAT HE CAN GET THA STOCK UP AND GET THE THING VESTED. AND I MADE THIS CRITICISM. IT'S NOT TRUE OF VERY CEO BY FAR. AND THERE ARE CEOS THAT DO IT THAT ARE GOOD CEOs. BUT SIMPLY, I AM SAYING THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM. AND LOWERING MONEY IS NOT STIMULATING PRODUCTIVITY BECAUSE THE MONEY IS NOT GOING TO THE CAPEX WHEN THEY BORROW CHEAPLY. IT'S GOING INTO BUYBACKS. SO YOU SEE EQUITY DWINDLING. AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM. IF YOU WANT ME TO GO ON, I CAN GO ON AND ON FOR HOURS.
MATHISEN: NO, NO WE'RE HAPPY TO YOU HAVE STAY AS LONG AS YOU WANT. WE JUST LOOKED AT A PICTURE OF –
ICAHN: I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING TO HEAR, ANYWAY. BUT YOU GOT ME GOING ON IT.
MATHISEN: LET'S BRING IN STEVE MACMILLAN INTO THE CONVERSATION HERE. I MEAN, YOU'RE VERY COMPLIMENTARY TOWARDS HIM. HE TOWARDS YOU AND WHAT YOU BROUGHT INTO THE BOARD ROOM. SO, CARL, WHY DON'T YOU RIFF A LITTLE BIT ABOUT STEVE, HIS BUSINESS AND WHAT YOU BROUGHT TO THE TABLE THEN AS YOU NOW EXIT THAT HOLDING.
ICAHN: WELL, I THINK HE'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT AN ACTIVIST LOOKS FOR. MEANING, WE DON'T LIKE TO MICROMANAGE IF WE CAN HELP IT. WE WENT INTO THIS COMPANY KNOWING WE THOUGHT IT WAS VERY CHEAP. WE THOUGHT THEY HAD GREAT PRODUCTS. AND IT WASN'T RUN PROPERLY, OBVIOUSLY. SO WHAT YOU LOOK FOR, AND IT'S VERY HARD TO FIND, BY THE WAY, A REALLY GOOD CEO THAT CAN JUST TAKE IT OVER AND DO IT. AND, I LOVE IT WHERE I HAVE VERY LITTLE TO SAY. STEVE HAS BEEN COMPLIMENTARY IN SAYING I WAS HELPFUL AND I THANK HIM FOR IT. AND I THINK I WAS BY SAYING, ONCE I TALKED TO HIM, I SAID, STEVE, YOU GO AND DO IT AND I'M WATCHING IT. LET ME SEE YOU DO IT AND IF YOU DO IT, I LOVE YOU AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR FROM ME. AND HE DID IT.
MATHISEN: STEVE?
STEVE MACMILLAN: THAT'S EXACTLY HOW IT'S BEEN. AND YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE DISCUSSIONS EARLY ON. WE HAD DIFFERENT THOUGHTS AS TO HOW TO CREATE VALUE. I HAD ONE PLAN. CARL HAD ANOTHER. CARL TOTALLY LISTENED TO MINE. ENDORSED IT, BUT HELD OUR FEET TO THE FIRE. AND IT CREATED THAT GREAT SENSE OF URGENCY. YOU KNOW, WE REPLACED THE WHOLE MANAGEMENT TEAM. WE TOOK A BUSINESS THAT WAS DECLINING AND TURNED IT INTO ONE OF THE GREAT TURNAROUND STORIES.
MATHISEN: SO I HEAR YOU BASICALLY SAYING THAT ACTIVIST INVESTORS, LIKE CARL – OR CONSTRUCTIVIST INVESTORS TO USE YOUR WORD – CAN BE VERY POSITIVE. IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU APPROACH IT.
MACMILLAN: IT IS. I THINK IT'S SITUATIONAL.
MATHISEN: YOU AS THE EXECUTIVE.
MACMILLAN: YEAH. I THINK IT WORKS WELL. YOU KNOW, I WAS ACTUALLY TALKING TO A BUNCH OF OUR SALES LEADERS THE OTHER DAY BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY ASKING ME ABOUT THE WHOLE RELATIONSHIP WITH CARL. AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO WAYS. SOME PEOPLE GO IN AND JUST ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE OTHER SIDE AND JUST FIGHT THE ACTIVISTS. YOU KNOW, I HAPPEN TO REALIZE, YOU KNOW, CARL WAS BREAKING UP COMPANIES AND DOING STUFF WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE. THIS IS A MAN I COULD PROBABLY LEARN A LITTLE BIT FROM. BY THE SAME TOKEN, I KNOW A LOT ABOUT RUNNING COMPANIES IN HEALTH CARE. AND TOGETHER –
SULLIVAN: BUT HERE'S THE THING. AND I'M GOING TO ASK CARL THIS, STEVE. WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME. CARL, YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY A VERY SMART GUY, VERY SUCCESSFUL GUY. BUT YOU'RE NOT A MEDICAL DEVICE GUY. HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU GO INTO A COMPANY LIKE HOLOGIC WHAT TO DO AND WHAT TO ASK ABOUT BECAUSE THIS IS NOT YOUR SPECIALTY, MEDICAL DEVICES.
ICAHN: WELL, YOU DON'T. I MEAN, I GET PEOPLE – AND MAYBE ACTIVISTS, MANY ACTIVISTS WITH EXCEPTION – I THINK SEE THEIR ROLE WRONGLY. THE ROLE, REALLY, YOU GO INTO A COMPANY AND THERE ARE TOO MANY OF THEM IN OUR COUNTRY – MANY ARE GREAT ONES, GREAT CEOS, BUT MANY – YOU GO AND YOU LOOK AT IT AND SAY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COMPANY? AND IT'S OBVIOUS THE CEO IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT. I MEAN, I CAN GIVE YOU COUNTLESS ONES THAT WE TURNED AROUND BY GETTING A NEW CEO IN. OR THE CEO GETS RELIGION. IN OTHER WORDS, THE PROBLEM THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT A MEDICAL DEVICE COMPANY. I KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT, BUT NOT MUCH. BUT YOU KNOW THERE ARE GREAT PRODUCTS THERE. I CAN GO INTO, YOU DON'T WANT TO GO INTO DETAILS, WE DON'T HAVE TIME. YOU KNOW, GE WAS COMPETING, WE SHOULD HAVE DONE IT THIS WAY INSTEAD OF THAT WAY. AND YOU NEEDED SOMEBODY TO COME IN, CUT THE COST AND ALSO, THOUGH, FIX THE COMPANY UP. AND, YEAH, I HAD CERTAIN IDEAS GOING IN, YOU KNOW, WHY DON'T WE DO THIS, DO THAT. BUT, HEY, I TALKED TO STEVE. MY JOB IS IF YOU BRING IN A CEO, AND I BELIEVE THIS COMPLETELY, IF YOU BRING IN THE RIGHT CEO, HE RUNS WITH THE BALL, NOT ME. AND IF HE SAYS WE OUGHT TO DO IT THIS WAY, HE HAS MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGE OF THAT COMPANY THAN I EVER WILL. AND IF HE WANTS TO DO IT HIS WAY, AS LONG AS YOU BRING HOME THE BACON, AS LONG AS YOU MAKE THIS COMPANY PRODUCTIVE, I'M WITH YOU 100%. AND HE DID IT. AND WE HAVE OTHER EXAMPLES LIKE STEVE. IT'S GREAT IF YOU CAN FIND A GUY LIKE THAT. AND HE DID A GREAT JOB AND HE'S NEVER HEARD FROM ME.
MATHISEN: AND YOU SEEM TO HAVE HAD A VERY OR DEVELOPED A VERY CONSTRUCTIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH TIM COOK. I'M NOT SURE IT BEGAN IN THE MOST FRIENDLY OF WAYS, BUT –
ICAHN: I THINK IT NEVER BEGAN WITH ANY ANIMOSITY WITH COOK. I HAD DINNER WITH HIM. I SAID YOU KNOW, YOU OUGHT TO BE DOING MORE OF A BUYBACK. AND I DON'T THINK HE DISAGREED. I MEAN, YEAH, I SAID YOU HAVE THAT 200 MILLION SITTING OVER THERE. SO WHAT DOES HE DO? A LITTLE TAX. WHAT DOES HE DO? BORROW A LITTLE MONEY AND DO IT. AND HE DID IT. AND I THINK IT WAS PROFITABLE FOR HIM. BUT THAT IS THE ONLY TIME I EVER TALKED TO TIM ABOUT HOW TO RUN THE COMPANY. YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T REALLY – AND THIS IS WHAT I TELL GUYS ON BOARDS THAT I'M ON – THESE GUYS ON THE BOARD, TOO MANY OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM, COME IN WITH GREAT IDEAS. NOW, YOU KNOW WHAT? IF YOU'RE A NOBEL PRIZE WINNER AND YOU'RE A BIOTECH COMPANY AND YOU'RE ON IT, SURE YOU SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. BUT MOST GUYS ON THESE COMPANIES, THEY'RE COMPANIES, YOU SAY, HEY LOOK, WHY ISN'T IT BEING RUN RIGHT? WHAT ARE ALL THESE CRAZY COSTS? AND YOU WANT A CEO THAT KNOWS THE AREAS HE'S GETTING INTO. THE PERFECT EXAMPLE WHERE THAT WASN'T WORKING AND WE HAD TO CHANGE IT WAS AT CHENIERE. I MEAN, SOUKI WAS THERE GOING INTO THIS AND GOING INTO THAT, TAKING INORDINATE RISKS. AND, YOU KNOW, HE HAD A – T HERE WAS AN INTERVIEW WITH HIM MAYBE TWO DAYS AGO –
WAPNER: TWO NIGHTS AGO WITH JIM CRAMER. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT IT UP, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I ACTUALLY WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT IT. TO RESPOND TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT MR. SOUKI SAID ABOUT YOU. WE'RE GOING TO LISTEN, ACTUALLY. WE'RE GOING TO LISTEN, CARL. HANG ON JUST A SECOND. WE'LL LISTEN TO MR. SOUKI WITH JIM CRAMER AND THEN WE CAN REACT TO IT ON THE OTHER SIDE. HERE'S CHARIF SOUKI ON MAD MONEY.
SOUND FROM "MAD MONEY WITH JIM CRAMER"
JIM CRAMER: THERE WAS IN YOUR OPINION YOU FOUNDED THE COMPANY.
CHARIF SOUKI: YES.
CRAMER: IT WAS YOUR VISION.
SOUKI: YES.
CRAMER: WHO WOULD DIFFER IN OPINION WITH YOU ENOUGH THAT THEY WOULD TELL YOU TO LEAVE?
SOUKI: CARL ICAHN.
CRAMER: CARL ICAHN. JUST LIKE THAT?
SOUKI: YEAH.
CRAMER: JOINS THE BOARD. SAYS THIS GUY IS NOT DOING HIS JOB EVEN THOUGH HE CREATED THE COMPANY.
SOUKI: NO, THIS GUY IS NOT DOING WHAT I WANT HIM TO DO.
CRAMER: WHICH WAS TO SLOW DOWN?
SOUKI: WHICH IS – NO, NOT NECESSARILY. JUST PAY DIVIDENDS AND USE THE CASH TO RETURN CASH TO THE SHAREHOLDERS…HE DOES NOT WANT TO DISTRIBUTE CASH TO THE SHAREHOLDERS. WE DISAGREE. SO ON AN AMICABLE BASIS –
CRAMER: IT WAS AMICABLE?
SOUKI: YES. YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW OF WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. YOU'D BE BETTER OFF GOING AND DOING SOMETHING ELSE.
WAPNER: SO HE WANTED YOU TO GIVE CASH BACK. OR YOU WANTED HIM TO GIVE CASH BACK, HE SAID NO. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO WHAT HE SAID?
ICAHN: NO. LET ME – LIKE ALL THINGS, IT'S COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT. TO BEGIN WITH, I LOVE JIM CRAMER. GREAT RESPECT FOR HIM. BUT I WISH HE HAD CALLED ME. USUALLY, HE CALLS ME – I'VE ALWAYS CALLED HIM BACK. IF HE WAS DOING AN INTERVIEW, AND I SAY THIS TO JIM IN ALL RESPECT, HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED ME TO ANSWER THE STUFF HE WAS DOING AND I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE INTERESTING INTERVIEW BEING THAT I'M NOT CRITICIZING JIM BECAUSE I THINK HE'S A GREAT GUY AND HE'S DONE A LOT OF GOOD STUFF. BUT NOW LET'S GO INTO GIVING THE CASH BACK. SO, YES, I WANTED A CASH BACK. YOU KNOW WHEN? IN 1919. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE BUYING A COMPANY HERE, THIS IS WHAT SOUKI IS NOT SAYING AND WHAT JIM DIDN'T HIT HIM WITH. YOU'RE BUYING A COMPANY HERE, IT'S A GREAT COMPANY. ALMOST NO-BRAINER. THIS IS ONE OF THE ONES THAT I CALL NO-BRAINER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I DISAGREE A LITTLE WITH JIM CHANOS WHO I RESPECT BECAUSE IF THE CONTRACTS, I MEAN WE SPEND A GREAT DEAL OF TIME. THAT WE CAN DO AND WE DO THIS. WE DO OUR RESEARCH INTENSELY. THOSE CONTRACTS ARE PRETTY DAMN GOOD. VERY GOOD. SO WHAT CHENIERE IS AND WHEN IT SOLD TO ITS SHAREHOLDERS AND WHAT THE SHAREHOLDERS BELIEVED IS NOT WHAT SOUKI WAS DELIVERING. THE SHAREHOLDERS BELIEVE THAT LOOK, YOU'VE GOT THIS COMPANY, YOU'VE GOT THESE TRAINS, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE LNG AND WE'RE GOING TO SELL IT OVER TO EUROPE WHERE THEY NEED THE LNG AND IT COULD COMPETE WITH OIL AND THIS IS WHAT WE BARGAINED FOR. WE GET INTO THIS COMPANY. THIS COMPANY IS DOWN. CHANOS IS SAYING WELL, YOU SHOULD SHORT IT. AND HE HAD A GOOD POINT BECAUSE THE COMPANY HAD TREMENDOUS COST. AND HE LOOKED AT IT AS CAPEX. WHAT WAS THE CAPEX WAS SOUKI LOOKING TO GO INTO ALL THESE – I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT HAIR BRAIN IDEAS, YOU KNOW? HE WAS GOING TO BUY OIL. NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT SOUKI'S RECORD, HE WAS GOING TO BUY OIL COMPANIES. HEY, WHEN HE BOUGHT OIL COMPANIES 10 OR 15 YEARS AGO, WHAT THE HELL DOES HE KNOW ABOUT BUYING OIL COMPANIES TO THE POINT THAT YOU WOULD JUST ASK ME WHAT DO I DO ABOUT MEDICAL DEVICES? I'LL TELL WHAT YOU HE KNEW. HE KNEW HOW TO GO ALMOST BANKRUPT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. SO NOW YOU GO IN THERE AND HE'S BUYING THESE OIL COMPANIES. WELL, WHATEVER HAIR BRAIN IDEA, I CALL IT HAIR BRAIN, MAYBE THAT'S UNFAIR. IT MIGHT NOT BE. I'M SURE HE IS A VERY – YOU KNOW, I NEVER MET HIM. I ONLY TALKED TO HIM ONCE MAYBE TWICE ON THE PHONE. AND HE INVITED ME ON THE BOARD. I SAID OKAY. BUT I'LL TELL YOU THIS, WHAT YOU HAVE THERE IS A COMPANY MAKING NO REVENUE AT THIS POINT, WHICH IS TRUE WHAT CHANOS SAID. BUT THAT'S TRUE. THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE BUYING. YOU'RE BUYING A COMPANY THAT IS ALMOST LIKE A TOLL BRIDGE. LITERALLY LIKE A TOLL BRIDGE. A GREAT PAYING TOLL BRIDGE THAT YOU COULDN'T BUY ANYWHERE ELSE THAT YOU KNOW IN 1919 YOU'RE GOING TO GET A $5 DIVIDEND HERE IF YOU PLAY IT RIGHT AND YOU BUILD THE STUFF RIGHT. AND WHAT YOU NEED IS SOMEBODY – THERE IS THE CEO – IS SOMEBODY THAT REALLY IS GOING TO BE WATCHING OVER HOW YOU BUILD IT BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY RISK. NOW SOUKI IS THERE SAYING, HEY, LOOK, WE'RE GOING TO GO, WE'RE GOING TO BORROW. FIRST OF ALL, SOUKI WAS TAKING 80 MILLION A YEAR, WHICH IS AMAZING. UNHEARD OF WITH A COMPANY MAKING NO REVENUE. OKAY. HE DEVELOPED A COMPANY, HE TOOK IT PUBLIC. IF HE WANTED TO TAKE 80 MILLION OUT, GO DO IT, BUT DON'T TAKE IT PUBLIC. AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE 80 MILLION. HE IS TAKING 80 MILLION OUT AND ANY STOCK HE COULD SELL, HE SOLD. YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T ALL VEST, SO HE WOULD SAY TO CRAMER, RIGHTLY SO, I DO OWN STOCK. SO HERE HE IS DOING THIS, GOING IN TO ONE IDEA AFTER ANOTHER, LOANING A FRIEND TO HIS $80, $90 MILLION TO GO INTO SOME KIND OF COMPANY. I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS EXACTLY. AND I LOOKED AT THIS, I SAID, THIS IS INSANE. THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS COMPANY. THIS IS KEEPING IT FROM BEING A GREAT, GREAT COMPANY. I THINK THIS IT'S A NO-BRAINER. WHERE DO YOU GET A COMPANY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET A $5 – RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE SELLING AT $38. YOU GET A $5 DIVIDEND AND A HUGE KICKER. THE KICKER IS IF OIL GOES UP, YOU'RE GETTING THAT DIVIDEND ONLY USING ABOUT 85% OF YOUR CAPACITY. SO YOU CAN HAVE 15% LESS BREADTH THAT YOU GOT FREE. AND IF OIL GOES UP, LNG WILL GO UP. SO YOU HAVE A FREE OPTION ON THAT. COULDN'T BE BETTER, EXCEPT YOU HAD SOUKI. AND SOUKI IS THERE SAYING – SO IN FAIRNESS TO HIM, HE SAID, YES. I DID SAY, YES, I WANT YOU TO STOP THIS NONSENSE. I WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THEY'VE GOT A TOLL BRIDGE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE PAYING $5 DIVIDENDS. SO, YES, THAT WOULD GIVE THE MONEY BACK IN DIVIDENDS, BUT THAT WOULD BE IN 1919. YOU HAVE TO DO A PRESENT VALUE CALCULATION. THERE IS A LOT OF OTHER GOOD STUFF THERE. SO I THINK HE'S RIGHT. I WAS VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN GETTING HIM OUT. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. AND THE BOARD LISTENED. AND I'M PROUD OF THE BOARD. I APPLAUD THEM FOR LISTENING. AND THEY GOT HIM OUT. AND THAT IS – SO I TAKE, YEAH, I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT. BUT I DON'T – BUT IT'S WRONG IN SAYING I WANT TO GIVE MONEY BACK. THERE IS NO MONEY TO GIVE BACK AT THIS POINT ANYWAY. THEREFORE, I WOULD SAY WHY THE
HELL IF THERE'S NO MONEY THERE IS SOUKI, EVEN IF HE WAS A GENIUS AT BUYING OIL COMPANIES, GO IN AND BUY OIL COMPANIES THAT MAKE THESE LOANS TO PEOPLE WHEN THERE REALLY IS NO MONEY THERE? SO THE WHOLE THING IS ABSURD WHAT HE WAS SAYING TO JIM. AND THEN JIM, IN THE INTERVIEW, I WOULD ARGUE WITH JIM SAYING MAKING IT SOUND LIKE OH, POOR SOUKI CAME IN. HE'S TAKING $80 MILLION A YEAR. HE'S TAKING THE MONEY OUT, HE SELLS ALL THE STOCK. I MEAN, IT'S ANALOGOUS FOR SOMEBODY WHO, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU DO A DEAL WITH SOMEBODY WHO SAYS LOOK, I'M GREAT AT GAMBLING OR I'M GREAT AT ROLLING DICE OR SOMETHING AND I'LL TAKE THE PROFIT IF THERE IS A PROFIT. IF THERE'S A LOSS, IT'S YOUR LOSS. THAT'S WHAT HE WAS DOING. SO THAT'S MY POINT.
MATHISEN: ALL RIGHT. CARL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR TIME TODAY. WE APPRECIATE IT. IT'S ALWAYS INTERESTING TO YOU HAVE ON. AND, SCOTT, THANK YOU FOR –
WAPNER: THANKS FOR LETTING ME IN THE SAND BOX.
MATHISEN: ABSOLUTELY. GREAT. AND STEVE MACMILLAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
MACMILLAN: THANKS FOR HAVING US.
SULLIVAN: THANKS, STEVE.
MATHISEN: AGAIN, THE NEWS THERE THAT CARL ICAHN IS OUT OF APPLE.
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