WHEN: Today, Thursday, October 13th
WHERE: CNBC's "Power Lunch"
Following is the unofficial transcript of a CNBC EXCLUSIVE interview with billionaire investor Mark Cuban on CNBC's "Power Lunch" (M-F, 1PM-3PM ET) today, Thursday, October 13th. Following is a link to the story on CNBC.com: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/13/mark-cuban-theres-a-stigma-attached-to-trumps-brand-its-done.html. Following are links to the video on CNBC.com: http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000559204 and http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000559205.
All references must be sourced to CNBC.
LEE: MARK CUBAN IS THE OWNER OF THE DALLAS MAVERICKS AND A SHARK TANK INVESTOR HE JOINS US LIVE EXCLUSIVELY FROM SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA. WE ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PAST 24 HOURS OVER AT WELLS FARGO. JUST CURIOUS WHAT YOUR TAKE IS AND WHETHER OR NOT THE REPUTATION OF THIS BANK CAN BE IMPROVED AT THIS POINT.
CUBAN: I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH DETAILS HONESTLY TO HAVE AN OPINION. I'VE BE SO CAUGHT UP IN OTHER THINGS. I JUST HEARD THE HEADLINES, SO I HAVE NOTHING TO ADD.
LEE: OK LET'S TALK ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, A TOPIC ON WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN OUTSPOKEN IN THE PAST AND A LOT HAS HAPPENED SINCE THE LAST TIME YOU MADE VERY PUBLIC COMMENTS ABOUT TRUMP. WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON WHERE HE IS NOW, ARE WE CLOSER TO HIS END THAN YOU THINK BEFORE? OR IS THIS JUST ALL PROOF HE IS SOMEWHAT TEFLON THIS THIS RACE?
CUBAN: OH, HE'S CERTAINLY NOT TEFLON. HIS NUMBER KEEP ON GOING DOWN. I THINK THERE'S PLENTY MORE STORIES TO COME OUT. I KNOW I'VE HEARD A FEW. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL BECOME PUBLIC. BUT I THINK THIS IS JUST A BEGINNING OF THE END OR THE MIDDLE OF THE END FOR DONALD TRUMP AND NOT JUST IN HIS RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY. BUT HIS BRAND. HIS PROPERTIES HIS BUSINESSE HE'S BEEN SCORCHED AND I THINK THE WHOLE THING HAS A REAL CHANCE OF GOING DOWN WITH HIM.
MATHISEN: THAT WAS WHERE I WAS GOING TO TAKE IT. THE TRUMP THE BRAND WE JUST HAD ROBERT FRANK REPORTING THAT APPARENTLY HOTEL BOOK AT SOME OF HIS NAMED PROPERTIES ARE OFF. THERE'S CONFLICTING INFORMATION AND OF COURSE, MR. TRUMP WILL PROBABLY COME OUT WITH HIS OWN NUMBERS TELLING A DIFFERENT STORY I WOULD EXPECT. HIS NATURE IS TO PUNCH BACK WHEN PUNCHED, BUT DO YOU THINK HIS BRAND IS TOAST?
CUBAN: DONE. OVER. I MEAN, COULD YOU SEE IT NOW, HONEY, WE'RE GOING TO VEGAS, WHERE DO YOU WANT TO STAY? AND THE ANSWER IS, ANYWHERE BUT TRUMP. WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO IN D.C.? ANYWHERE BUT TRUMP. THERE'S JUST THE STIGMA ATTACHED TO HIS BRAND NOW. AND IT'S CRAZY BECAUSE HE WENT FROM BEING A TOP FIVE BRAND RECOGNIZED BY ALMOST EVERYBODY, TO PROBABLY BEING A BOTTOM FIVE BRAND RECOGNIZED BY EVERYBODY FOR THE WRONG REASONS.
LEE: MARK, WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE BUS TAPE. BECAUSE IT'S BEEN WRITTEN OFF BY MR. TRUMP AS BEING LOCKER ROOM TALK. YOU'RE THE OWNER OF THE MAVERICKS. YOU'VE BEEN IN A LOCKER ROOM OR TWO. WHAT'S YOUR ASSESS OF THIS "LOCKER ROOM TALK"?
CUBAN: I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT TALK IN A LOCKER ROOM EVER. I MEAN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT, THAT'S -- I'VE NEVER HEARD ANYBODY DISCUSS ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
LEE: SO, THERE'S NO JUST BOYS BEING BOYS. THIS IS JUST WHAT WE DO BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
CUBAN: NOT THE BOYS I'VE HUNG OUT WITH, NO. THAT'S JUST, NO.
SULLIVAN: MARK, I AGREE. PLAYED FOOTBALL FOR A LONG TIME, BASEBALL. ALL KINDS OF SPORTS. DIDN'T HEAR THAT KIND OF STUFF. LET'S GET --
CUBAN: I'VE HEARD A LOT OF STUPID STUFF, TOO, BUT NOTHING LIKE THAT.
SULLIVAN: PLENTY OF STUPID STUFF, BUT NOTHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HEARD OUR PREVIOUS SEGMENT, WHERE I WAS SORT OF ARGUING ABOUT WELLS FARGO MAY HURT OVERALL CONFIDENCE IN THE MARKET. I KNOW YOU'VE GOT A VIEW ON THE MARKET GENERALLY. DO YOU AGREE MAYBE TO SUZY WELCH'S POINT, PEOPLE ARE SO DISGUSTED THAT IT WON'T MATTER ANYMORE OR DOES THIS PROVIDE ANOTHER BLACK EYE?
CUBAN: JUST IN TERMS OF THE STOCK MARKET, I THINK BOTH EYES ARE BLACK AND THE BODY IS BLACK AN BLUE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS. SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS TO ADD UP. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HIGH FREQUENCY TRADING IN THE PAST. JUST THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT DECLINE IN THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC COMPANIES. YOU KNOW, MAYBE HOPEFULLY, WE'RE SEEING A CHANGE IN THINGS NOW, BUT COMPANIES DON'T WANT TO GO PUBLIC. AND I THINK YOU KNOW, BECAUSE COMPANIES DON'T WANT TO GO PUBLIC, WE'VE SEEN TOO MANY ACQUISITIONS. I USE THIS EXAMPLE ALL THE TIME, BUT JUST IMAGINE WHERE HOW THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF INSTAGRAM AND TWITCH AND OCCULOUS AND ANY NUMBER OF ACQUIRED TECH COMPANIES WERE INDEPENDENT AND LOOKING AT GOING PUBLIC NOW LIKE SNAPCHAT IS. WE'D HAVE A WHOLE NEW ATTITUDE ABOUT THE VIBRANCY BECAUSE WE'D BE SEEING ALL THESE UP AND COMING COMPANIES GO PUBLIC. IT WOULD CREATE EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE ECONOMY
SULLIVAN: YOU KNOW, I LOVE YOU, BUDDY, BUT HOW SAD IS THAT THAT WE'RE KIND OF AGREEING THAT EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE? THAT THE --
CUBAN: VERY SAD.
SULLIVAN: IF WE DON'T, MY POINT OF THE PIECE I WROTE, JUST A LITTLE SCRATCH OFF THOUGHT. IF WE DON'T HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE, GETTING INTO THE MARKET AS OLD PEOPLE AGE OUT AND CASH OUT. THERE WILL BE NO MARKET. WE WON'T HAVE NEW FACTORIES. HOW DO WE FIX IT?
CUBAN: YES, ON ONE HAND, PEOPLE ARE JUST INVESTING IN INDEXES NOW. MONEY COMING IN IS KIND OF FORCING THE MARKET UP ALONG WITH LOW INTEREST RATES, BUT I AGREE. MY BUDDIES AT THE SEC, THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT ENFORCEMENT, BUT THE REALITY IS THEY SHOULD BE DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS OF TAKING COMPANIES PUBLIC. RAY GAY PLUS WAS A MINOR, MINOR STEP. AND THEY CERTAINLY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING TO INSENT COMPANIES OR ENCOURAGE THEM TO GO PUBLIC AND THAT SHOULD BE THEIR NUMBER ONE FOCUS. THERE ARE A LOT OF GREAT UP AND COMING COMPANIES. THERE ARE A LOT OF GREAT ENTREPRENEURS WHO COULD TAKE THEIR COMPANIES PUBLIC. FAR SOONER AND ALL OF US, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE MIDDLE CLASS HAS A CHALLENGE PARTICIPATING ALONG WITH THE 1% IS THERE AREN'T COMPANIES THAT WE CAN ATTACH TO THAT WE ALL GET THAT WE CAN INVEST IN THAT ARE COMING PUBLIC AND WHEN THEY DO COME PUBLIC, THEY COME PUBLIC SO MUCH LATER THAN THEY USED TO THAT YOU DON'T GET TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR UPSIDE IN THEIR GROWTH. IMAGINE IF TWITTER HAD COME PUBLIC TWO YEARS EARLIER. WE'D ALL BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT, YEAH, MAYBE A SLOWDOWN NOW, BUT IT HAD A GREAT RUN AND IT GREW ETC ETC. WE JUST DON'T SEE THAT ANYMORE. AND THAT I THINK IS A MARKETING PROBLEM FOR THE MARKET. THAT IS YOU KNOW, AN INVESTMENT PROBLEM FOR ALL OF US. AND I THINK IT HURTS COMPETITION AS WELL. BECAUSE EVERY MAJOR PUBLIC COMPANY KNOWS THEY CAN USE THEIR STOCK TO ACQUIRE THEIR POTENTIAL UP AND COMING COMPETITION AND SO, THOSE COMPANIES ARE SO SMALL, OR SMALL ENOUGH THEY HAVEN'T REACHED THE LEVEL OF ANTITRUST ISSUES. NO KNOCK ON FACEBOOK, BECAUSE WHAT THEY DID WAS BRILLIANT. WHEN THEY BOUGHT INSTAGRAM AND WHAT'S APP GONE WERE TWO POTENTIAL COMPETITORS, GONE WERE TWO POTENTIAL IPOS GONE WERE TWO REASONS FOR US TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THE MARKET.
MATHISEN: WOULD YOU TAKE A COMPANY PUBLIC TODAY IN YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OR WOULD YOU PREFER TO KEEP IT PRIVATE?
CUBAN: IN A HEART BEAT. IN A HEART BEAT.
MATHISEN: YOU WOULD.
CUBAN: AND SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OH, YEAH. BECAUSE THERE ARE SO FEW IPOs. LOOK AT HOW THE TECH IPOs IN PARTICULAR HAVE DONE. THERE WAS AN OIL AND GAS IPO YESTERDAY THAT DID WELL. I MEAN, THERE'S SUCH A THIRST FOR IPOs RIGHT NOW. THE DEMAND IS THERE. THEY'RE JUST AREN'T THE COMPANIES AND I THINK JUST THE CULTURE AND PARTICULARLY ON THE WEST COAST OR SILICON VALLEY IN PARTICULAR HAS JUST DOWN PLAYED ALL THE HASSLES OF GOING PUBLIC. I THINK THAT'S BAD FOR THE ENTREPRENEURS FOR THE INVESTORS. BAD FOR THE GENERAL INVESTING COMMUNITY AND FOR AMERICA.
MATHISEN: LET ME JUST ASK YOU A KIND OF RANDOM QUESTION IS THERE A JOB IN GOVERNMENT THAT WOULD INTEREST YOU? ANY?
CUBAN: NO.
MATHISEN: NONE.
CUBAN: I HAVEN'T ASKED. I HAVEN'T ASKED, I HAVEN'T OFFERED. YOU KNOW, ONE, YOU KNOW, I'VE INVESTED IN 150 PLUS COMPANIES. I LOVE HELPING ENTREPRENEURS. I LOVE CREATING WEALTH FOR PEOPLE. I LOVE CREATING JOBS. I LOVE DOING SHARK TANK BECAUSE IT SENDS THE MESSAGE TO 20 MILLION PLUS PEOPLE YOU KNOW, ACROSS ALL VIEWING FOR EVERY EPISODE THAT THE AMERICAN DREAM IS ALIVE AND WELL. IT GETS KIDS FROM 8 TO 80 EXCITED ABOUT ENTREPRENEURSHIP. THAT'S WHERE I KNOW I CAN HAVE AN IMPACT. THAT'S WHAT I LOVE TO DO. I JUST COULD NOT SEE MYSELF GOING THROUGH ALL, WHAT WE CALL POLITICS. BUT I WILL ADD ONE THING. I AM FUNDING A GROUP AND IT HASN'T BEEN GIVEN A NAME YET. I THINK ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS WE HAVE A AS A COUNTRY IN POLITICS IS THAT WE DON'T NOT EVERYBODY WHO'S OUR BEST AN BRIGHTEST HAS THE ABLE TO RUN FOR OFFICE. BECAUSE OF THE TWO AND A HALF PARTY SYSTEM. AND A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH BALLOT ACCESS LOTS. I'M PUTTING UP $2 MILLION FOR A GROUP, TO GO IN STARTING WITH TEXAS AND OTHER STATES TO GO OUT THERE AND SAY LET'S DO WHAT WE CAN TO CHANGE BALLOT ACCESS LAWS. IT IS CRAZY THAT IN STATES YOU HAVE TO HAVE 30,000 OR 50 THOUSAND SIGNATURES TO GET ON THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY BALLOT IN THOSE STATES, SO IF I COULD HELP CHANGE THE BALLOT ACCESS LAWS, MAYBE WE COULD TAKE A STEP TOWARDS CREATING MORE DIVERSITY IN THE PEOPLE WHO RUN FOR OFFICE AND I THINK THAT WILL BE A POSITIVE STEP.
MATHISEN: WON'T RUN FOR OFFICE.
CUBAN: I THINK THAT'S A GREAT STEP.
MATHISEN: YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, CERTAINLY MY HOUSE, WHAT PEOPLE LOVE ABOUT SHARK TANK, IT'S FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT. WHOLE FAMILY CAN SIT DOWN AND WATCH, HAVE AN OPINION, PLAY ALONG, THE WHOLE BUSINESS. I WONDER WHETHER YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO MARK BURNETT ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE WITH DONALD TRUMP? PRODUCER.
CUBAN: WE SPOKE.
MATHISEN: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?
CUBAN: HEL TOLD ME HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN POLITICAL SIDE AT ALL AND DONALD'S A BIG BOY AND DONALD IS GOING TO DO WHAT DONALD DOES. I THINK HE CAME OUT WITH SOMETHING YESTERDAY OR THE DAY BEFORE SAYING HE'S A DEMOCRAT AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DETAILS OF THE RELEASE, BUT I LET MARK SPEAK FOR HIMSELF. MARK IS I LOVE WORKING WITH MARK. HE'S A BIG PROPONENT OF SHARK TANK, HE'S A BIG ENTREPRENEUR I'LL LET HIM SPEAK FOR HIS OWN POLITICS.
LEE: I HAVE TALK TO YOU IN THE PAST ABOUT MARKETS MARK SO WHERE DO YOU THINK WE STAND IN TERMS OF VALUATIONS? ARE THERE STOCKS IN MARKETS YOU'RE INTERESTED IN NOW? THAT YOU'VE INVESTED IN RECENTLY?
CUBAN: THE COMPANIES THAT I BOUGHT RECENTLY ARE BRIGHT COVE. I BOUGHT CHEG. BUT THEY'VE GONE UP. RECENTLY, FOR ME, I DON'T TRADE NEARLY AS MUCH AS I USED TO. THOSE WERE PROBABLY FOUR MONTHS AGO. I BOUGHT SOME URANIUM. I WAS DOING SO MUCH RESEARCH ON ALL OF THIS CLINTON FOUNDATION AND SELLING THE URANIUM AND ALL THE NONSENSE AND ALL OF THE FALSEHOODS THAT I GOT TO KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT THE URANIUM BUSINESS. AND SO I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE DOWN FOR A LITTLE WHILE. I BOUGHT SOME CCJ JUST AS A LONG, LONG.
SULLIVAN: HOLD ON. BUYING THE FUTURES IN URANIUM? I HOPE YOU'RE NOT LIKE STOCKPILING URANIUM.
CUBAN: NO, NO, NO. YOU CAN'T EXPORT URANIUM. LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.
SULLIVAN: THAT SHOULD BE THE HEADLINE. MARK CUBAN STOCKPILING URANIUM.
MATHISEN: LET ME TAKE YOU BACK TO SOMETHING WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AN HOUR AGO WITH THE CHAIR OF THE SEC, MARY JO WHITE. AND THAT IS THE COOPERMAN CASE THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING LITIGATED.
CUBAN: RIGHT.
MATHISEN: HAVE YOU REACHED OUT TO MR. COOPERMAN? IF SO, WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM? BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THESE MATTERS. WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM?
CUBAN: I TOLD HIM KICK THEIR ASS. IF THIS IS SIX YEARS LATER, THEY'RE BRINGING THIS, IT'S PROBABLY NONSENSE. I ALSO TOLD HIM, IF IT ENDS OF GOING TO TRIAL READ THE TRANSCRIPTS OF OTHER SEC TRIALS BECAUSE THEY TEND TO DO THE SAME THING AND MAKE THE SAME STUPID MISTAKES. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT CHAIRMAN WHITE HAD TO SAY, BUT THE THING ABOUT SEC AND INSIDER TRADING, THERE ARE NO REAL INSIDER TRADING LAWS. YOU COULD TALK TO FIVE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT THE SEC. NONE WILL GIVE YOU THE SAME DEFINITION FOR ANY PARTICULAR SCENARIO OF INSIDER TRADING. NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHAT THE LAW IS AND I'LL TELL YOU THE OTHER THING I'VE SAID TO OTHERS WHO HAVE REACHED OUT TO ME ABOUT INSIDER TRADING, IF YOU GET HIT WITH CIVIL LIABILITY AND LOSE ON INSIDER TRADING, IT'S LIKE A SPEEDING TICKET. UNLESS YOU WORK IN THE INDUSTRY, YOU COULDN'T NAME TWO PEOPLE THAT HAVE LOST, THAT HAVE BEEN WHAT'S THE RIGHT TERMINOLOGY, THAT HAVE LOST A CIVIL TRIAL. BEEN FOUND LIABLE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. YOU COULDN'T NAME TWO OR THREE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN FOUND LIABLE. IN TERMS OF IT BEING A ATURANT IMPACTING YOUR BUSINESS. CHANGING YOUR PERCEPTION AMONG YOUR FRIENDS AND WORKPLACE. THOSE DAYS ARE LONG GONE, SO I THINK THE SEC REALLY HAS TO RETHINK HOW THEY DO BUSINESS. THEY HAVE TO START DEFINING BRIGHT LINES ON WHAT INSIDER TRADING IS. IF THE SEC WANTED TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF INSIDER TRADING, THEY WOULD PUBLISH VERY BRIGHT LINED GUIDELINES ABOUT WHAT INDIVIDUAL INVESTORS AND IN CORPORATE, EMPLOYEES CAN AND CANNOT DO. THERE WOULD BE A PLACE WHERE EVERBODY COULD LOOK AND THERE WOULD BEW NO DOUBT ABOUT WHAT IS OR IS NOT INSIDER TRADING. THAT F THEY DID THAT, ANYBODY WHO BROKE THOSE LAWS WOULD HAVE NO EXCUSE. RIGHT NOW EVERY CASE THE SEC BRINGS IS SO GRAY AND SO CONVOLUTEDIS SO HARD TO PROVE THAT IT WASTES TAX PAYER MONEY AND ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. IF THE SEC WANTED TO REDUCE OR ELIMINATE TRADITIONAL INSIDER TRADING, THEY WOULD PUBLISH BRIGHT LINED GUIDELINES ABOUT EVERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO YOU CAN THINK OF AND EVERYBODY WOULD BE ABLE TO READ THOSE AND MAKE A DECISION BEFORE THEY MADE A TRADE OR UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT DO AND YOU WOULD SEE INSIDER TRADING CASES DISAPPEAR. THE REASON THEY WON'T DO IT BECAUSE THAT'S A LOT OF JOBS THAT THEY WON'T NEED. A LOT OF LAWYERS THEY WON'T NEED. A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO LEAD THE SEC TO WORK IN PRIVATE PRACTICE THAT WON'T GET JOBS. THAT'S WHY THEY WON'T DO IT. THE SEC IS NOT ABOUT REDUCING INSIDER TRADING AT ALL.
About CNBC:
With CNBC in the U.S., CNBC in Asia Pacific, CNBC in Europe, Middle East and Africa, CNBC World and CNBC HD, CNBC is the recognized world leader in business news and provides real-time financial market coverage and business information to approximately 386 million homes worldwide, including more than 100 million households in the United States and Canada. CNBC also provides daily business updates to 400 million households across China. The network's 15 live hours a day of business programming in North America (weekdays from 4:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m. ET) is produced at CNBC's global headquarters in Englewood Cliffs, N.J., and includes reports from CNBC News bureaus worldwide. CNBC at night features a mix of new reality programming, CNBC's highly successful series produced exclusively for CNBC and a number of distinctive in-house documentaries.
CNBC also has a vast portfolio of digital products which deliver real-time financial market news and information across a variety of platforms including: CNBC.com; CNBC PRO, the premium, integrated desktop/mobile service that provides live access to CNBC programming, exclusive video content and global market data and analysis; a suite of CNBC mobile products including the CNBC Apps for iOS, Android and Windows devices; and additional products such as the CNBC App for the Apple Watch and Apple TV.
Members of the media can receive more information about CNBC and its programming on the NBCUniversal Media Village Web site at http://www.nbcumv.com/programming/cnbc.
For more information about NBCUniversal, please visit http://www.NBCUniversal.com.