WHEN: Today, Monday, April 9, 2018
WHERE: CNBC's "Squawk on the Street"
Following is the unofficial transcript of a CNBC interview with National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow on CNBC's "Squawk on the Street" (M-F 9AM-11AM) today, Monday, April 9th. Following is a link to video of the full interview on CNBC.com: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/04/09/necs-kudlow-president-trump-is-a-free-trader-is-not-damaging-the-markets.html?play=1.
All references must be sourced to CNBC.
CARL QUINTANILLA: PRESIDENT TRUMP TAKING TO TWITTER ONCE AGAIN THIS MORNING TO TALK TRADE WITH CHINA. THE PRESIDENT SAYING, "WHEN A CAR IS SENT TO THE U.S. FROM CHINA, THERE'S A TARIFF TO BE PAID OF 2.5%. WHEN A CAR IS SENT TO CHINA FROM THE U.S., THERE'S A TARIFF TO BE PAID OF 25%. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE FAIR OR FREE TRADE? NO, IT SOUNDS LIKE STUPID TRADE - GOING ON FOR YEARS." JOINING US FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, OUR FORMER COLLEAGUE, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR, LARRY KUDLOW. LARRY, IT IS GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK. GOOD MORNING TO YOU.
LARRY KUDLOW: THANK YOU, CARL APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH. ISN'T HE RIGHT, BY THE WAY? ISN'T WHAT HE TWEETED, RIGHT? HONESTLY. I'M A FREE TRADER. YOU'RE PROBABLY A FREE TRADER. PRESIDENT TRUMP IS A FREE TRADER, HE'S TOLD ME THAT A MILLION TIMES. BUT LOOK AT THE DIFFERENTIALS. IT CAN'T LAST. IT'S NOT RIGHT.
QUINTANILLA: RIGHT. I WANT TO READ TO YOU A BIT FROM A NOTE OUT OF MILLER TABAK TODAY. THEY SAY IT'S THE PRESIDENT -- IT'S A DISCUSSION OF WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A TRUMP PUT. THEY SAY IT'S HIS WORDS THAT HAVE BEEN THE CATALYST FOR MARKET SELL-OFFS RECENTLY. THEY'VE STOPPED ANY RECENT ONE-DAY, TWO-DAY STRONG BOUNCES DEAD IN THEIR TRACKS. DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT KNOWS THAT, UNDERSTANDS THAT? WOULD USE ANY MORE DISCRETION IN THE FUTURE?
KUDLOW: WELL, I DON'T THINK I AGREE WITH IT FOR STARTERS. I MEAN, THIS MAY BE A DIFFICULT SITUATION. LET ME JUST BACK UP FOR ONE SECOND. MILLER TABAK, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. OKAY. YOU CAN NOT HAVE A POSITION – LOOK, I'M A FREE TRADER. I DIDN'T LIKE THE ORIGINAL 232. I DON'T LIKE BLANKET TARIFFS. YOU ALL KNOW THAT. BUT I'VE ALSO TALKED FOR YEARS ABOUT HOW CHINA IS GETTING AWAY WITH STUFF THEY SHOULDN'T GET AWAY WITH. SO THIS PRESIDENT HAS GOT SOME BACKBONE. OTHERS DIDN'T. HE'S RAISING THE ISSUE IN FULL PUBLIC VIEW, SETTING UP A PROCESS THAT WILL INCLUDE THE – IT MAY INCLUDE TARIFFS. HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE MOSTLY NEGOTIATIONS, BUT YOU CAN'T RULE ANY OF THAT STUFF OUT. I DON'T THINK THIS IS DAMAGING THE MARKET AT ALL. I THINK ALL THIS TALK IS JUST DEAD WRONG. OKAY? I JUST WANT TO START WITH THAT. SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO DO IT. SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO SAY TO CHINA, "YOU ARE NO LONGER A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. YOU ARE A FIRST WORLD COUNTRY, AND YOU'VE GOT TO ACT LIKE ONE." THERE ARE LAWS ON THE BOOKS. TECHNOLOGY TRANSFERS -- LET ME SAY FORCED TECHNOLOGY TRANSFERS HAVE TO STOP. AND STEALING INTELECTUAL PROPERTY HAS TO STOP. TECHNOLOGY IS OUR BREAD AND BUTTER, IS IT NOT? AND THEY CAN'T JUST TAKE AWAY OUR ADVANCES AND INNOVATIONS. I DON'T FIND THAT BAD. I THINK FOR ECONOMIC GROWTH, IT'S TERRIFIC. SO I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS DAY-TO-DAY COMMENTARY. I REALLY DON'T.
JIM CRAMER: LARRY, JIM. HOW YOU BEEN?
KUDLOW: HEY, JIMMY CRAMER, HOW ARE YOU, BUDDY?
CRAMER: I'M GOOD AND IT'S SO GREAT TO TALK TO YOU. HEY LARRY, I'M LISTENING TO YOU AND THINKING, YOU KNOW WHO'S AGGRIEVED? WE COULD HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT GERMANY IS AGGRIEVED. WE COULD HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT FRANCE IS AGGRIEVED. THEY'RE COMING HERE. WE KNOW THAT MACRON CANT BE HAPPY WITH THE WAY HE WAS TREATED IN CHINA. COULD THERE BE A COALITION OF THE WILLING BEING BUILT BY YOU AND BY PRESIDENT TRUMP THAT SAYS, "YOU KNOW WHAT, IT'S CHINA THAT'S A BAD GUY AND IS HURTING EVERYBODY."
KUDLOW: LOOK, THE PRESIDENT IS AMENABLE TO THAT. HE'S NOT NECESSARILY OUT SOLICITING SUPPORT, YET. BUT HE IS AMENABLE. WE'VE HAD JAPAN COME OUT, EUROPE, FRANCE, GERMANY, CANADA. IT IS -- I CALL IT A TRADE COALITION OF THE WILLING. THAT'S MY VIEW, I DON'T THINK THE PRESIDENT HAS QUITE PUT IT THAT WAY. BUT HERE'S THE POINT YOU'RE GETTING TO, AND YOU'RE RIGHT: THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS – THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT CHINA CANNOT CONTINUE TO BEHAVE ILLEGAL AND UNFAIRLY, AS THEY HAVE. OKAY? WE'VE GOT TO GET ALONG WITH CHINA IN THE LONG RUN, ABSOLUTELY. THE PRESIDENT PINGED OUT THAT HE'S GOING TO BE FRIENDLY WITH PRESIDENT XI NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. OKAY, I GET THAT. BUT ON THE TRADING SPHERE, CERTAIN THINGS HAVE TO STOP AND THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS WE ARE RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHY, BY THE WAY, JIMMY, I'M AN OPTIMIST ABOUT THE OUTCOME. CHINA WILL LISTEN TO REASON AND I THINK OURS IS THE REASONABLE VIEW.
CRAMER: WELL, LARRY, MY ONE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU AND I WORKED TOGETHER FOR MANY YEARS, THE GLUE THAT HELD US TOGETHER IS PRO-GROWTH. AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT TARIFFS ARE PR- GROWTH. HOW DO WE RATIONALIZE SOMETHING THAT YOU TAUGHT ME, WHICH IS IF YOU PUT TARIFFS IN THE WAY, THEN WORLD GROWTH SLOWS. WORLD GROWTH SLOWS, IT MEANS LOWER PROFITS, IT MEANS THE AVERAGE WORKING PERSON DOES POORLY. I'VE BEEN TAUGHT BY YOU THAT THAT IS THE CASE. HOW DO I CHANGE MY VIEW IN LIGHT OF WHAT'S HAPPENED?
KUDLOW: NO, I DON'T WANT YOU TO CHANGE YOUR VIEW. I DON'T WANT YOU -- THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO CHANGE YOUR VIEW EITHER. LOOK, HE WILL SAY TO BOTH OF US, HE HIMSELF BELIEVES IN FREE TRADE, OKAY. BUT YOU CANNOT HAVE A LARGE MAJOR COUNTRY LIKE CHINA ENGAGING IN UNFAIR AND ILLEGAL TRADING PRACTICES. YOU CAN'T DO IT. THAT'S NOT FREE TRADE. HIS VISION, THE PRESIDENT'S VISION, I'VE HEARD THIS FROM HIM A NUMBER OF TIMES, IS IN ORDER TO CLEAR OUT A FREE TRADE PATH, WE'VE GOT TO ASK CHINA AND TAKE WHATEVER ACTIONS HE DEEMS NECESSARY TO CHANGE THEIR WAYS. THEY ARE PUTTING UP TRADE BARRIERS, THEY'RE CLOSING MARKETS, JIM. THEY'RE STOPPING INVESTMENT. AS I SAID, THEY'RE FORCING TECHNOLOGY TRANSFERS AND THEY'RE STEALING INTELECTUAL PROPERTY. THAT IS THE PATH TO TRUE FREE TRADE AND THAT IS THE PATH TO ECONOMIC GROWTH. LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO FILIBUSTER. LET ME PUT ONE MORE POINT IN THIS. PLEASE DON'T BLAME TRUMP. BLAME CHINA. CHINA HAS BEEN THE PROBLEM MR. TRUMP IS INVOLVING HIMSELF AND REACTING TO THE PROBLEM ON BEHALF OF AMERICAN INDUSTRIES. BUT CHINA STARTED THIS YEARS AGO. YOU KNOW THAT. I KNOW THAT. AND WE'VE GOT TO BRING THEM INTO THE GREAT -- THE GREAT ARENA OF NATIONS, BUT THEY'VE GOT TO BEHAVE THEMSELVES. SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD EXERCISE THAT WILL LEAD TO BETTER ECONOMIC GROWTH.
SARA EISEN: LARRY --
KUDLOW: YES, SARA?
EISEN: LARRY, I THINK IT'S THE PROCESS THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING OUT AND BEING CRITICAL ON. JUST TELL ME IF YOU AGREE WITH THIS. WHAT IT SEEMS TO INVESTORS AND TO A LOT OF US WATCHING IS THAT THE PRESIDENT FIRES OFF A TWEET OR A THREAT, AND THEN YOU AND MNUCHIN AND NAVARRO COME OUT AND SORT OF WALK BACK THE WORST CASE SCENARIO WITH SOME SOOTHING WORDS. IS THAT THE STRATEGY HERE?
KUDLOW: WELL, LOOK. THE PRESIDENT HAS HAD SOME SOOTHING WORDS, TOO. FOR EXAMPLE, HE TWEETED ABOUT HIS RESPECT FOR PRESIDENT XI, AND I'VE SAID ON THE AIR A COUPLE OF TIMES THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID TO ME, PLEASE GO OUT THERE AND TELL FOLKS THAT HE HAS NOTHING BUT RESPECT FOR PRESIDENT XI AND PRESIDENT XI'S NEGOTIATING ABILITY. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, SARA, TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT CHINA'S RESPONSES HAVE BEEN. YOU'RE JUST BLAMING PRESIDENT TRUMP. TAKE A LOOK. CHINA HAS BEEN TOUGH IDEOLOGICAL, MEAN. READ THEIR PRESS RELEASES. YOU SEE, PART OF THIS REASON FOR CONSIDERING A SECOND ACTION, A SECOND 301 ACTION IS CHINA'S RESPONSE TO THE FIRST ONE WAS COMPLETELY UNSATISFACTORY. AND BY THE WAY, IT WASN'T VERY DIPLOMATIC EITHER. SO YOU KNOW, IT TAKES TWO TO PLAY THIS GAME. AND THE PRESIDENT'S GOT TO STICK UP FOR HIMSELF AND FOR THE UNITED STATES. SO I JUST DON'T BUY THIS. LOOK, THERE WILL BE BACK AND FORTH HERE. WE'VE GOT A COUPLE MONTHS TO GO BEFORE ANY REAL ACTIONS. SO FAR, THERE ARE NO TARIFFS YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. THERE ARE NO TARIFFS THUS FAR. WE'LL SEE HOW THE CHINESE REACT TO IT. THERE'S ALSO DISCUSSIONS GOING ON. COMMUNICATIONS CONTINUE. TREASURY SECRETARY MNUCHIN AMONG OTHERS IS HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS. THAT'S A GOOD THING. SO THIS CAN BE WORKED OUT. I JUST – LOOK, I KNOW I'M WORKING FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP. BUT YOU KNOW, I BACKED ALMOST ALL OF HIS POLICIES. I DIDN'T LIKE THE BLANKET TRADE INITIALLY BUT THAT GOT FIXED WITH THE EXCLUSIONS. BUT HERE'S MY POINT. HE IS RESPONDING TO DECADES OF MISDEEDS BY CHINA TRADE. HE JUST IS. AND IT'S HIGH TIME WE DID THAT. YOU JUST HAVE TO DO IT.
DAVID FABER: LARRY, IT'S DAVID. THE FOCUS, THOUGH, OF WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM YOU AND OTHERS IN THE ADMINISTRATION DOES SEEM TO BE ON THE THEFTS OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, THE EXPROPRIATED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY ON THESE JBs. I MEAN, I DID MY FIRST, AND I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, DOCUMENTARY ON THIS SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO. THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DID MAKE SOME PROGRESS IN SLOWING THE CHINESE MILITARY FROM THEIR ORGANIZED ATTACK ON OUR CORPORATIONS IN TERMS OF CYBERSECURITY. BUT WHY ARE TARIFFS THE RIGHT ANSWER TO THE THEFT OF INTELECTUAL PROPERTY? WHY ISN'T THERE SOME SORT OF AN ASYMMETRICAL RESPONSE THE U.S. CAN FOLLOW AS OPPOSED TO TARIFFS?
KUDLOW: THERE MAY BE OVER TIME, DAVID. THERE MAY BE. THERE ARE OTHER THING – LOOK, THE U.S. TRADE REP, AMBASSADOR ROBERT LIGHTHIZER, HE BY THE WAY HAS FILED A SUIT IN THE WTO AGAINST THESE UNFAIR AND ILLEGAL TRADING PRACTICES. SO THERE'S THAT. BUT LOOK, I THINK THE PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW, HE'S A BOLD GUY. A LOT OF LEADERSHIP HERE. TARIFFS GET YOUR ATTENTION, DOESN'T IT? AND CHINA HAS DONE THE SAME THING. PRESIDENT OBAMA MENTIONED IT. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH MENTIONED IT. PRESIDENT CLINTON MENTIONED IT. BUT WE'VE NEVER STAYED THE COURSE. AND SO THE PRACTICE, WHAT I'LL CALL THE MALPRACTICES, CONTINUE. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE'RE GONNA HAVE TARIFFS OR NOT. I WOULDN'T TAKE IT – I MEAN, I WOULD TAKE THE PRESIDENTS ARGUMENTS QUITE SERIOUSLY. WE MAY. ON THE OTHER HAND, WE MAY BE ABLE TO SETTLE THIS WITH NEGOTIATIONS. WE WILL SEE HOW THIS THING TURNS OUT. BUT SOMEHOW, DON'T BLAME THE U.S. STOP BLAMING THE U.S.
FABER: BUT, LARRY, IP IN PARTICULAR IN DEALING WITH UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY'RE TAKING, WHAT THEY'RE NOT TAKING, THAT'S A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE. VERY HARD TO MONITOR, TOO. EASIER TO LOOK AT A TRADE DEFICIT AND SORT OF FIGURE OUT, OKAY, WE'LL APPLY TARIFFS. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THIS AREA WHERE YOU GUYS SEEM TO BE VERY FOCUSED, VERY HARD TO MEASURE WHETHER YOU'RE MAKING PROGRESS OR NOT.
KUDLOW: THAT MAY BE. I THINK THAT'S A FAIR POINT. I ALSO THINK THAT'S NOT AN INSEPARABLE BARRIER. BUT YOU KNOW, I ACCEPT YOUR POINT. TRADE GAME IS A TRICKY BUSINESS, DAVID. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY. BUT I WILL COME BACK TO THIS POINT. TECHNOLOGY IS THE HEART OF OUR INNOVATIVE ENTREPRENEURIAL ECONOMY. AND WE CAN'T BE IN A POSITION OF HAVING OUR CHINESE FRIENDS JUST STEALING OUR BEST STUFF. WE CAN'T. SO YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING --
QUINTANILLA: LARRY, TO THAT POINT, ALRIGHT, SO TO DAVID'S QUESTION, SO TO DAVID'S QUESTION, AND WE'RE ALL HERE TRYING TO GAUGE THE LEVEL OF SUCCESS IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS. IS THERE LIKE A MINIMUM DELIVERABLE THAT WOULD ALLOW THE U.S. TO WALK AWAY FROM THIS SAYING WE DID WHAT WE CAME TO DO?
KUDLOW: THAT'S A GREAT POINT, AND I THINK THE ANSWER ULTIMATELY MAY BE YES. I THINK THERE MAY BE CONDITIONS LAID OUT ON BOTH SIDES. I THINK THAT'S UNDER DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. SO THOSE ARE – YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THAT HAS THE -- AT LEAST THE PATINA OR AURA OF A PROPER NEGOTIATION. BUT STANDING BEHIND THAT IS THE STICK OF TARIFFS. THAT'S PART OF THE PRESIDENT'S WAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HONOR THAT. BUT THIS WILL BE COMPLICATED. THIS IS A PROCESS, AS I'VE SAID, MANY TIMES. IT'S GOING TO GO ON FOR A WHILE. IT'S GOING TO INCLUDE A NUMBER OF, SHALL WE SAY, ARROWS IN THE QUIVER. MY VIEW IS, LOOK, I'M AN OPTIMIST. I THINK THIS IS GOING TO WORK OUT. I THINK THE PRESIDENT'S TWEET THIS MORNING WAS GREAT. THE CHINESE WILL COME AROUND BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S THE RIGHT THING. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT THING.
CRAMER: LARRY, I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU. YOU AND I LIKED NAFTA INITIALLY. NAFTA, 4-1, WHEN THE PESO, WE DID THIS, BUT NOW IT'S 18-1. NOW THE WHOLE DIFRENTIAL HAS CHANGED BECAUSE OF THAT CURRENCY. NAFTA IS NEXT IN THE AGENDA. DON'T YOU HAVE TO TELL THE PRESIDENT THAT, "LISTEN, THIS HAS TO CHANGE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING KILLED BY NAFTA."
KUDLOW: WHICH -- NAFTA HAS TO CHANGE? OR THE CURRENCY? I'M SORRY. WHICH ONE?
CRAMER: YES, WELL, NAFTA -- REMEMBER, NAFTA, WE NEGOTIATED, THE PESO WAS 4 TO 1. NOW IT'S 18 TO 1. THE MEXICAN ADVANTAGE IS JUST EXTRAORDINARY. HOW CAN THE PRESIDENT NOT URGE WALKING AWAY FROM THIS DEAL, GIVEN THE WHOLE IN THE FINANCIALS HAVE CHANGED SINCE IT WAS CREATED?
KUDLOW: WELL, LOOK, YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN, WE SHOULD HAVE MUCH GREATER CURRENCY COOPERATION FOR NORTH AMERICA. THE U.S. DOES PRETTY WELL WITH THE CANADIAN LOONIE BUT NOT THE MEXICAN PESO. SO YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM. BUT THE BIGGER QUESTION IS NAFTA AND I HAVE NO SPECIFICS TO OFFER THIS MORNING BUT I WILL SAY PROGRESS IS BEING MADE ON RENEGOTIATING AND RECALIBRATING NAFTA. PROGESS IS BEING MADE. GOOD PROGRESS IS BEING MADE ON THAT.
QUINTANILLA: AND SO ONE LAST QUESTION, LARRY. ON THE MECHANICS REGARDING CHINA AND ANY BILATERAL DISCUSSIONS, CAN YOU GIVE US THE LAY OF THE LAND AT THIS MOMENT? WHO IS TALKING TO WHO? ARE THERE MEETINGS ON THE CALENDAR? AND IF NOT, ANY IDEA WHEN THEY MIGHT BE?
KUDLOW: NO, I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE, CARL, YET. I WILL JUST SAY THERE'S CONSTANT CONVERSATION, CONSTANT COMMUNICATIONS ON THAT. COMMUNICATIONS IS A GOOD THING, RIGHT? I'M COMMUNICATING WITH MY FRIEND DAVID FABER, I'M COMMUNICATING WITH MY PAL JIM CRAMER. IT'S GREAT STUFF. SOMETIMES WE AGREE, SOMETIMES WE DON'T. BUT WE WORK IT OUT. IT'S A LONG-TERM PROCESS.
QUINTANILLA: LARRY, IT'S GREAT HAVING YOU BACK.
CRAMER: IT'S FABULOUS!
QUINTANILLA: COME BACK TO SET SOMETIME.
KUDLOW: I CAN'T HELP MYSELF. YOU KNOW WHAT, I WANT VERY MUCH TO DO THAT. AND I CAN'T HELP MYSELF. I JUST THINK IT'S GONNA – THIS STORY -- THIS STORY, WHICH HAS CAUSED UNCERTAINTY, IS GOING TO HAVE A VERY OPTIMISTIC ENDING. THAT'S MY VIEW. THANK YOU. I'LL BE THERE SOON.
QUINTANILLA: LARRY KUDLOW AT THE WHITE HOUSE. LARRY, OUR THANKS TO YOU. WE'LL SEE YOU SOON.
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